[bart]

Interesting thread.

Maybe personal experience has a lot to do with one's outlook on growing older. My parents died relatively young (54 and 69), and I really wish they had been around longer.

OTOH, my grandmother lived to be 100 and was active and up-to-mischief until the day she died. She was riding her bike to the grocery store in her 80s and at age 99, she wanted to go kayaking with me. She plowed up her front lawn for a vegetable garden -- to hell with what the neighbors said!

So much of age is mental.

Are you active, mentally and physically?
Do you care about other people?
Do you have lifelong interests?

At 56, I'm happier than I ever was and I'm looking forward to many more years. No matter fate throws at me, I want to make the most of it.

About Christianity, I keep going back to the wisdom in Ecclesiastes:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')o every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

http://www.bartleby.com/108/21/3.html

[Lokutus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', ' ')It had nothing to do with religion initially.

[Lokutus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', 'I')nteresting thread.


About Christianity, I keep going back to the wisdom in Ecclesiastes:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')o every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

http://www.bartleby.com/108/21/3.html

[PrairieMule]

Hmmmmm, I wonder if this bait has a hook on it. Well I'm thick-let's see if I can get a free lunch without the barb. Wait a minute, I worship a God whose son was the original Mr.Snappy Comeback to the Pharisees and Scholars

OK first I am sorry for your mother's suffering. Unfortunately you do not have a corner on hard luck. I can remember My Grandfather degrade from Alzheimer's Disease. He graduated from Princeton in 1931 in Geology and became a wildcat driller in Oklahoma after he got back from the war. I watched his great mind erode and it's hard to watch. My other Grandfather chased his dream and became a pilot and aircraft mechanic. He spent his life working with airplanes and died from cancer caused by exposure to airplane fuel. When they buried him I saw how cancer made him a shell of the man I knew. Can you imagine if you Lokutus, chased your dream and became a Navy SEAL and years later you became sick from exposure to say depleted uranium or something else toxic in the gulf? Do I hate God for taking those two men the way he did. No, they shaped who I am today. I thank God for the time I got to spend with them. They did not cure cancer or climb Kilimanjaro but their lives had great relevance, I imagine your mother's life has had relevance to others. That's what comforts me.

I guess I could be angry and reject God. I could worship the science of evolution instead. I suspect the only answer that would give me is that they were weak and they died. Remember "Only the Strong Survive". I'll be blunt Lokutus, how is it working for you? Are you happy person or could you entertain the option you have a God sized hole in your heart?

Later,

Mule

PS-No Bible passages were quoted in this post as a weapon of conversion or self rightousness. If you must quote the Bible, Please quote responsibly.

[Lokutus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', ' ')
PS-No Bible passages were quoted in this post as a weapon of conversion or self rightousness. If you must quote the Bible, Please quote responsibly.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', ' ')
PS-No Bible passages were quoted in this post as a weapon of conversion or self rightousness. If you must quote the Bible, Please quote responsibly.

[Schweinshaxe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', 'a') really long time?

By that I mean 70 plus years.

I have a vague memory of catching a comment a week, or two, ago on another board in a thread on trends in lifespans over history. Someone stated that humans probably weren't built to live as long as we do today. He was implying that most of us just start to get bored with it all after the first 5 or 6 decades.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

According to some anthropologists, super fit hunter-gathrers lived to around 64 on average. Then after humanity switched to agricultural life, lifespans plummeted for the next 10,000 years. It's only been over the last few decades that we have seen average life spans move past 50 or 60 up to and beyond 75.

But that comment haunts me. Are we really meant to live 80 plus years?

Many older people that I know past 75 just seem to be putting in time waiting for death.

Let me ask you this. Given a choice in your early twenties, which would you take?:

a. A full life of success, adventure, and love but an early death at 55 or 60.

or

b. An average life that stretched to out to 85 with the last 25 years being rather dull uneventful ones other than having to endure the deterioration and disease of the body that accelerates after 60.

I am asking because we seem so hell-bent on prolonging things with all sorts of drugs and procedures. For what I ask? So that you can lie on your sofa for another decade watching day-time TV?

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', 'I')nteresting thread.


About Christianity, I keep going back to the wisdom in Ecclesiastes:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')o every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

http://www.bartleby.com/108/21/3.html

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', 'I') noticed a number of Christian threads here today. So if there are any Christians reading this, I have a question for you:

Just what the hell has your god got against the old and frail? If anyone should be cut some slack, it's them.

[bart]

Re: Ecclesiastes

> That was ripped off from an old Byrds song.

Actually, Ecclesiastes is one of the "awkward" books in the Bible. Suggestions have been made to drop it because it's not conventionally religious. The attitude is stoical and bleak, and yet accepting of our human condition. It has some of the greatest poetry ro read aloud that I know:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')anity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
What profit hath a man of all his labor which he taketh under the sun?
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

...

I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.
And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.
http://www.bartleby.com/108/21/1.html

[Vexed]

I work with lots of "old" people, but I am not in the health care business.

What I notice is that, in most cases, you can't tell any physical difference between a 60 year old who hasn't taken care of themselves and an 80 year old who has.

They look the same; the only difference is that the 80 year old has held on to something the 60 year old hasn't: Passion for life.

If you don't talk to a lot of old folks, you might think they are all useless and bored. They aren't. And those that are't sure don't seem that old.

[Raxozanne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vexed', ' ')Passion for life.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vexed', ' ')Passion for life.

[peaker_2005]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', 'R')e: Ecclesiastes

> That was ripped off from an old Byrds song.

Actually, Ecclesiastes is one of the "awkward" books in the Bible. Suggestions have been made to drop it because it's not conventionally religious. The attitude is stoical and bleak, and yet accepting of our human condition. It has some of the greatest poetry ro read aloud that I know:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')anity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
What profit hath a man of all his labor which he taketh under the sun?
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

...

I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.
And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.
http://www.bartleby.com/108/21/1.html

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peaker_2005', 'R')e: Ecclesiastes
I LOVE Ecclesiastes. Have ever since I read it for the first time. I think Jesus' speech on "Don't worry" is effectively what Ecclesiastes is trying to get across. It's saying "Yeah, the world's messed up. So what? Does that mean we abandon what God has taught us? Certainly not!"

It's great that it's not traditionally religious; It's good to have something in there that screws with your mind - it forces you to think.

It's great that it accepts the human condition; Because we're human, and we're in the human condition. But when you look at that, and then see the truth of God -- man, do you get hammered... You start to think; "Why depend on the ways of the world when it's only going to let me down". And THAT is what Christianity is all about - not depending on the world, but living in it, and instead, leaning on God's understanding.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')e need a new one though, maybe somebody will think of something.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')e need a new one though, maybe somebody will think of something.

[Vexed]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vexed', ' ')Passion for life.

[Lokutus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peaker_2005', 'R')e: Ecclesiastes
If you view religion as the institution to stand for something greater than that worldly nonsense that isn't so wise after all, then I'm all for it. We need a new one though, maybe somebody will think of something.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'R')e: Ecclesiastes
If you view religion as the institution to stand for something greater than that worldly nonsense that isn't so wise after all, then I'm all for it. We need a new one though, maybe somebody will think of something.