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Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby coyote » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 02:37:58

{Title edited for clarity by MQ}

Scaring people about energy

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alan Caruba', 'H')is book [A Thousand Barrels A Second by Peter Tertazkian] is devoted to the concept of “peak oil”, that indeterminate day when the world’s known reserves of oil begin to decrease and the view that there will be few others to replace them.

That is a fallacy. On at least five occasions in the past, the world has been informed that it was running out of oil...

Same old stuff...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he concept of “peak oil” has been around since the 1950s when it was first proposed by a Shell Oil geologist. New oil fields have been found since then and the effort to find others continues in order to meet the anticipated world demand of 120 million barrels per day in 2025.

Like how he (sort of) mentions Hubbert, but totally failed to mention that Hubbert was absolutely correct about the Peaking of US production? Hubbert must have been wrong, because "New oil fields have been found since then." Ha.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s noted, bad news sells. Americans need to keep in mind that (1) all the oil that exists around the planet has not been found, (2) that new technologies will make its extraction possible, and (3) will greatly improve the use of what exists.

He seems to be mainly griping that "the scary news purveyors are having a field day," and taking a few pokes at the president in the process. But he actually sounds a little scared himself. He finally actually did mention some true things about the problems with alternative energy sources, so I wanted to find out who this guy Caruba is.

Didn't take long. Is he a geologist? Nope. Energy Expert? Nope. Okay, he must be an economist, right? Wrong again. Turns out Alan Caruba is a 'Public Relations Counselor,' whatever that is.

The Caruba Organization

I really wish these guys would do a little homework instead of adding to the complacency...
Lord, here comes the flood
We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood
If again the seas are silent in any still alive
It'll be those who gave their island to survive...
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby Colorado-Valley » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 04:02:57

Hey, we run an entire government here in the U.S. on "public relations."

Works pretty well, doesn't it?
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby savethehumans » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 04:17:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')orks pretty well, doesn't it?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Too bad the P.O. problem isn't solved--that'd just leave the global warming/climate change problem, the poverty problem, the World Empire/Economy problem, the pollution problem, the bird flu problem, the--

[smilie=angry3.gif] Oh, never mind. . . .
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby Longsword » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 04:45:38

This is what always gets me -if the problem isn't immediate, there is no need to solve it -screw the future generations! We won't change a thing!

Of course we could find 10 trillion new barrels tomorrow, slim as that chance might be, the question is, do we really want to risk it?
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby Doly » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 04:57:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'T')urns out Alan Caruba is a 'Public Relations Counselor,' whatever that is.


Somebody that has been paid to say that peak oil is no problem?
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby seldom_seen » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 05:07:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Longsword', 'O')f course we could find 10 trillion new barrels tomorrow, slim as that chance might be, the question is, do we really want to risk it?

Even if we did find 10 trillion barrels of oil we'd still be screwed. heh. We'd just use that oil to expand the exponential growth machine. We'd have more energy to cut more forests down, mine more mountains, deplete more soil, water and fisheries and create oodles and oodles of more pollution! Plus, we'd expand the population to an even more spectacular die off.

We're at a fork in the road. One road leads to peak oil, the limits to growth and some form of collapse. The other road leads to well, the limits to growth, and some form of collapse.

There is no solution to peak oil, because it is not a problem that can be solved. Just like you can't solve the problem of the sun setting at night. It just happens. Peak oil exposes the problem of overshooting our carrying capacity.
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby NeoPeasant » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 05:38:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'T')urns out Alan Caruba is a 'Public Relations Counselor,' whatever that is.


Somebody that has been paid to say that peak oil is no problem?


Yes. This is not the first time a conservative corporate funded think tank operative has been given the task of ridiculing peak oil. Remember Peter Huber and "The Bottomless Well?". He worked for these guys

It's not what they believe, it's what they consider in their own best interests to have you believe. Why is corporate America paying (excuse me - donating to ) propaganda organizations to ridicule peak oil?
The battle to preserve our lifestyle has already been lost. The battle to preserve our lives is just beginning.
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby Daculling » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 09:00:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', '
')It's not what they believe, it's what they consider in their own best interests to have you believe. Why is corporate America paying (excuse me - donating to ) propaganda organizations to ridicule peak oil?


Recognition of peak oil means the end of exponential corporate profits and the impoverishment of their customers. Who invests in in zero or negative return?
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby dub_scratch » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 11:23:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daculling', '
')Recognition of peak oil means the end of exponential corporate profits and the impoverishment of their customers. Who invests in in zero or negative return?


There is a universal bias to reject peak oil and limits to growth in general because it does not serve our economic model. IMO, this is more of a reflection of the growth economy's vulnerability then it is of ones "optimism" for the future.

Imagine for a moment if nuclear fusion were to start coming online where it became clear we moving into a new era of huge energy supply. Would the Alan Carubas and Peter Hubers of the world be out there denying and ridiculing immanent Peak Oil? I think these folks would become the biggest proponents peak oil. Under such a scenario where the energy transition becomes a benign problem or even a great new business opportunity, the subject of peak oil would be widely accepted by our culture. The Alan Carubas and Peter Hubers of the world would be contemplating the oil decline of Gharwar as if it were some typical revolution in the business cycle.
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby markam » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 11:33:02

Neocon idiots like that guy will be in for a world of hurt when they find out that spewing bile will not magically create oil or fuel the American military monstrosity.
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby Eli » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 11:50:49

This guy is whistling in the breeze.

We have hit peak oil.

When world oil prices rise and fall because of Nigeria or because Chavez gives a speech we know we have reached the peak. Granted Nigeria is a real problem but now since there is no spare capacity any supply problem is magnified beyond what it would have been in the past.

New technology like deep-water wells will help some, but they are not going to be orderly wise investments to get more oil. The use of new technology is going to be more like a mad dash to get anything we can.
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby Zoe » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 11:52:06

Has anyone read The Wall Street Journal article of Saturday 2/18 re. the Lease Sale 181 Area in the Gulf of Mexico that the Senate Energy Committee is trying to open? (Wall St. Jnl says "pushing to open")

Sen. P. Domeneci predicts the area contains as much as 13 billion barrels of oil and six trillion cubic feet of natural gas. At the current US consumption about 21 million barrels per day how much would this additional amount influence the various timings current Peak Oil predictions?? How many years would it add? Can anyone comment? Why hasn't this been more widely commented on?
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby TheTurtle » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 12:19:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zoe', ' ')

Sen. P. Domeneci predicts the area contains as much as 13 billion barrels of oil and six trillion cubic feet of natural gas. At the current US consumption about 21 million barrels per day how much would this additional amount influence the various timings current Peak Oil predictions?? How many years would it add? Can anyone comment? Why hasn't this been more widely commented on?


Sure, I'll comment: 13 billion barrels of oil represents 1.7 extra years of "driving to the mall solo in my SUV" pleasure. I'm not as certain on the natural gas, but I THINK 6 trillion cubic feet represents 100 days worth of use in the US. Of course, there's only a couple more months of winter left in the Northern Hemisphere, so we're probably good to go for another year or so. :P
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby backstop » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 12:31:09

Zoe -

13 Bn bbls of oil may or may not be the recoverable amount from this reserve -

IF it were all recoverable, then, divided just by the present use of 84m bbls/day,

it would meet global usage for just 155 days.

On top of which, there is the significant factor of the GOM's growing risk of hurricanes causing massive shutdowns and equipment losses.

One of the problems for the oil industry is that as oil reserves diminish, they get increasingly difficult (costly) to extract, and this is compounded by oil-price rises escalating plant, equipment and labour costs.

Which adds to Big Oil's reasoning for quietly withdrawing from fields in decline (such as the North Sea) and to a decline of exploration budgets in favour of large dividends to shareholders.

regards,

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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby converse » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 12:43:27

Turtle-

You are right- current US nat gas consumption is about 20 trillion CF per year.

Cheers.
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby tsakach » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 13:52:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alan Caruba', 'I')f our political leaders don’t know the difference, if they continue to blather about "global warming" and "energy independence", then we all need to worry that our grandchildren could be back to lighting their homes with whale oil or kerosene.
National Anxiety Center:Warning Signs

Uh... Kerosene?

His own website says: "While the Center has sought funding from foundations and corporations, it has, regrettably, not received any to date, so it continues to rely on highly motivated individuals."

It seems like he is just doing this PR work his own, possibly trying to attract corporate funding. But in a tragic-comical way, he is completely out of touch with the energy industry. Even if he was in touch with the industry, why would they even hire somebody to produce stuff like this?
Last edited by tsakach on Tue 21 Feb 2006, 01:57:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Once again, apparently there's no peak oil problem.

Unread postby alecifel » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 19:16:40

Just for grins.. here is a definition of a "Public Relations Counselor" from a major PRC firm.

How the Public Relations Counselor Serves Management

In the difficult task of managing an enterprise today, professional public relations counseling can significantly assist senior executives....

Each situation is different. There is no “standard” answer... no “standard” solution...

...Sometimes, the problem is relatively simple: a company or organization has served the public interest well, but its good actions are unknown to those whose support is needed. In such a case, we develop an appropriate communications program to tell the organization's positive accomplishments in an effective way.


(Excerpts from a monograph prepared by the Public Relations Society of America)

OH, I got it. A spin doctor!

I'd like to ask Mr. Caruba, how many geologists he has discovered who support the claim of his article.
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