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Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby ChicknLittle » Wed 08 Feb 2006, 21:38:11

I was thinking the same thing... ( I only trust websites with links to prisonplanet.com for my financial information now : )

In the wake of bad news about GM i have noticed a story in print news that happen to point out the downside of smaller vehicles ("big vehicles are safer") and today read this gem in my local paper about how hybrid technology makes cars too quiet... DANGEROUSLY QUIET 8O ...

http://www.showmenews.com/2006/Feb/20060208News034.asp
Last edited by ChicknLittle on Wed 08 Feb 2006, 21:42:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby DigitalCubano » Wed 08 Feb 2006, 21:42:33

Actually, that 2nd article does make some very good points about the need to change the valuation methodologies and metrics we use to gauge the health of the economy (e.g. account balances). We are obviously in transition from an industrial economy to a knowledge-based economy, so it stands to reason that valuation techniques should capture these new forms of goods and services to get a more accurate read on economic performance:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he numbers don't catch Intel's exhaustive training program either. To get its new plants running quickly, the chipmaker brings 800 or 900 employees from the new fab to spend a minimum of six months in Hillsboro, Ore., where Intel develops new production processes. By the time they return home, these people will have picked up not just the details of the process but also tribal knowledge -- the unwritten lore of how Intel works. With that info in their heads, they're equipped to get the new factory up and running at high volume within a quarter, rather than taking a year or more. In economics speak, this is a classic transfer of human capital. So why isn't it called an export?


I'm still getting up to speed with Hausman's work on so-called Dark Matter, so I can't contribute much on it right now. However, it is very intriguing. Whether these sources of value actually start figuring into things depends on whether they are or will be accepted by the marketplace. I'm of the mind that perhaps they are already being considered by many stakeholders given that the response of various modern economies and many markets continutally defy expectations (yeah sure, I understand that many on here believe many other explanations). Will we see a repeat of sorts with what happened after Black, Scholes and Merton's ground breaking work on options valuation?

Thanks for the link. Very interesting stuff!
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Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby aldente » Wed 08 Feb 2006, 23:20:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ChicknLittle', ' ')and today read this gem in my local paper about how hybrid technology makes cars too quiet... DANGEROUSLY QUIET

Thank god for Harley Davidson!
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Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby Free » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 03:36:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ChicknLittle', ' ')and today read this gem in my local paper about how hybrid technology makes cars too quiet... DANGEROUSLY QUIET

Thank god for Harley Davidson!


Loud pipes save lifes! :)
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Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby shakespear1 » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 05:06:06

The fundamental question is "Where is the job growth if things are so good? In what sectors and job types?"

From I am hearing it is the low paying jobs !!! That is not a bright future or happy prospect for a graduate. 8) 8) 8)
Men argue, nature acts !
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"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
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Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby Leanan » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 08:01:55

Awhile back, CNN reported that 28% of new jobs in the U.S. are going to immigrants. Legal and otherwise. I think that tells you something about how much those jobs are paying.
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Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby MarkL » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 09:58:48

..
Last edited by MarkL on Sat 25 Aug 2007, 13:40:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby peaker_2005 » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:05:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkL', 'H')ere's another amazing story that was posted on a "news service" yesterday:

The Rockefeller File *The Great Energy Swindle*

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')yndicated columnist Paul Scott informs us: "Once [the] concept of international policy control over food is accepted by UN members, Kissinger then plans to move to establish this same concept over oil and eventually all energy in the world.-"
...
Contrary to the incantations of the doomsayers, America is not running out of oil. As Don Oakley of the Copley News Service notes: " Forevery one of the billions upon billions of barrels of petroleum the United States has consumed since Colonel Drake drilled the first well in 1859, at least another barrel remains in the ground."
...
That last point is so crucial to understanding the mess we are in that we want to repeat it. Fuelish, oil-consuming Americans didn’t cause the energy crisis. The Mideast War didn’t cause it. Our growing prosperity didn’t cause it. Political meddling (by some of the brightest -planners around, we might add) did.
...
Although it seems to have been around forever, the environmental movement appeared on the national scene almost overnight. Five years ago, not one person in a thousand had even heard the word ecology. But suddenly all of - us were supposed to panic at the thought of the slimy hand of pollution suffocating us as we sleep.

The major bankrollers of this -spontaneous- movement were the numerous Rockefeller foundations, the Rockefeller-controlled Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller controlled Carnegie Foundation and the Rockefeller interlocked Mellon (Gulf Oil) foundations. Among the most vigorous public advocates were Roberto Anderson of Atlantic Richfield (and the CFR) and Henry Ford II of the Ford Motor Company (and the CFR).


I'm glad I read that article...

Now I'll know that when the SHTF, that it will be just another planned event on the path to creating a "New World Order".


They're probably right on the political meddling point, but they clearly don't have a clue about the way oil production works.
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Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby Falconoffury » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:13:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e are obviously in transition from an industrial economy to a knowledge-based economy, so it stands to reason that valuation techniques should capture these new forms of goods and services to get a more accurate read on economic performance:


That is because the industry is moving to other countries. The USA is more consumerist than ever, but most of that which they consume is imported. If those imports stop coming, I wonder how much of a knowledge based economy they will have.
"If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
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Re: Spin Docs are Working Overtime

Unread postby CARVER » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 12:15:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DigitalCubano', 'A')ctually, that 2nd article does make some very good points about the need to change the valuation methodologies and metrics we use to gauge the health of the economy

I also think this is important. From the article:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his stuff is hard to measure, but to ignore it is to miss what the economy is telling us. And to miss that is to increase the likelihood of committing policy blunders.

I think it is clear that we have been and are commiting policy blunders with regard to 'social capital' and 'natural capital' (as explained below), because we focus on our simplified/flawed indicators of 'progress', we ignore what is difficult to measure.

Bernard Lietaer wrote the following about this in his book The Future of Money (2001):
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')raditional economis acknowledges only the two Yang forms of capital: financial capital (stocks, bonds, cash, and 'intellectual property' such as patents and trademarks); and physical capital (e.g. plant, equipment, inventions, real estate). It therefore ignores the role of the two forms of Yin capital: social capital (e.g. family or group solidarity, peace, quality of life, etc.) and natural capital (e.g. clean water or air, biodiversity, etc.). This denial is remarkable, given that Yang capital would simply not survive without continuous input from the Yin capital forms.
One sign of a shift in awareness is the growing talk about 'knowledge capital' - which is in fact a bridge between financial and social capital - and the discussions about 'green taxes' which aim at compensating for our blindness to the scarce resources obtained from the pool of Natural capital. (p. 272 - 273)


Is the goal economic growth? Or is that not the endgoal? Is output the goal, or is well-being the goal? If we could increase economic growth at the cost of well-being of the citizens, would that be a good? Or what about growing the economy at the cost of more more citizens being excluded from it? We need policy to achieve what we really want, and that probably requires continual studies to see what is really happening.
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