[crapattack]

Revi said:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Telling us that we're addicted to oil is like the pusher man telling his addicts that he's running out of junk, so they'll have to straighten up. We might have to do it, but the withdrawal isn't going to be pretty.

[Revi]

At least you Canadians are wasting your own oil. We have got to get off this stuff, but we just did some stuff to our house and cars to replace or conserve over half our fossil fuels and it's hard to do. The average person doesn't even know where to start. It'll be like that movie Cold Turkey where a whole town quit smoking. Lots of unhappy folks. They could get desperate. Addicts are dangerous.

[crapattack]

That movie sounds good, I'm going to try to find that.

[peaker_2005]

Yeah, it's probably going to get nasty....

[Revi]

Here's what we have done to try to get off the oil addiction. We've halved our fossil fuel use in the past 5 years:

http://www.msad54.org/sahs/appliedarts/ ... /index.htm

[cube]

You may be an oil addict if...

you have one of these stickers on the back of your SUV

[crapattack]

I disagree with you Cube. Soliders and families of solders are not addicted to oil any more than the general public. If you are referring to their service, maligning them is not fair, we are all part of the system and they go where they are told to. Most of these kids believe they are serving the cause of justice and freedom and are being lied to. Many are dying and being mutilated, until you put yourself in such danger I don't think you should be taking pot-shots from the sidelines.

[Revi]

I have 3 of those stickers on the back of my small pickup. The soldiers aren't the problem, we are. They are just working for the people that get us the oil. We are the ones that consume it every day.

[Revi]

I realized last night that one of the problems with talking about oil addiction is that almost nobody has ever done anything about it. We need a 12 step program to deal with it. "I am powerless against the power of oil. I need help." I am only half joking. When I talk to people about the things we have done to quit about half of our fossil fuel use they are amazed. Most people think that there's nothing that they can do, so they keep consuming. Here is a short web photo album of what we have done. I figure we have cut our fossil fuel consumption by between a third and a half with no real change in lifestyle. We live in a regular house and drive regular cars. We didn't spend much to do these things. It is possible!

http://www.msad54.org/sahs/appliedarts/ ... /index.htm

[katkinkate]

I heard recently, it is more effective to eat green (locally produced organic produce, little to no meat) than to drive green. All families can become mostly vegetarian and eliminate excess consumption of oil-based products without reducing true quality of life. Its just a matter of wanting to bad enough to make the effort.

[Longsword]

Revi, you forgot the Doomer option:

"No, the American public will rather trigger nuclear holocaust than start using one drop less oil."

[blukatzen]

If this question is just about gasoline, that is one thing, but I wasn't sure if you also meant things that you buy that are made from petroleum derivatives, plastic junk, etc.
Or having to use natural gas/other methods you MUST use to heat the house because of living in an urban area. (If I could heat with wood, pellets, etc. I would, however, there are problems with code violations in the city limits.)
So, I don't quite understand the total breadth of your question...? Can you let us know?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') realized last night that one of the problems with talking about oil addiction is that almost nobody has ever done anything about it. We need a 12 step program to deal with it. "I am powerless against the power of oil. I need help." I am only half joking. When I talk to people about the things we have done to quit about half of our fossil fuel use they are amazed. Most people think that there's nothing that they can do, so they keep consuming. Here is a short web photo album of what we have done. I figure we have cut our fossil fuel consumption by between a third and a half with no real change in lifestyle. We live in a regular house and drive regular cars. We didn't spend much to do these things. It is possible!

http://www.msad54.org/sahs/appliedarts/ ... /index.htm

[thuja]

You miss the point I think Montequest. Yes of course a little personal conservation ain't gonna stop the inertia ball of population growth, rising Asian demand, etc, but it will create the impetus for people to carve out a different type of life more easily when the shortages and exploding costs begin.

If we can depend less on petroleum through biking, switching to wood heat, gardening. eating more locally, taking mass transit, stopping buying excess "stuff", we will be able to handle the world a tad better down the road.

It won't solve the problem, but then again, my belief is that nothing will...no government moonshot program (that will harm more than help), no market incentives, no individual conservation efforts ("It may be a sign of personal virtue..." ---Dick Cheney).

So now's the time to get off the oil , not out of a desire for true societal transformation, but out of a desire for personal and local community survival.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'Y')ou miss the point I think Montequest. Yes of course a little personal conservation ain't gonna stop the inertia ball of population growth, rising Asian demand, etc, but it will create the impetus for people to carve out a different type of life more easily when the shortages and exploding costs begin.

If we can depend less on petroleum through biking, switching to wood heat, gardening. eating more locally, taking mass transit, stopping buying excess "stuff", we will be able to handle the world a tad better down the road.

[Revi]

Are you using capitalism or jevon's paradox as an excuse for not doing anything? Should we just lie on the ground and wait for the world to end? Efficiency doesn't hurt. You just use less. We are clever monkeys. We can figure this out! It just looks hopeless if you aren't willing to try.

[crapattack]

There was no 4th response to your poll Revi.

4. No. The average family can't cure their oil addiction.

Sorry to be all "doomer" or whatever. The average family would have to remove themselves from the modern world and join an austire Amish/Hutterite community because these are the only communites I know in the northern hemisphere living as far from oil consumption and modern oil-driven economies as possible. Even these are probably not 100% free. There may be other places in the southern hemisphere in the 3rd world completely free from oil products or economies, but they are very few if any. So, no. Most do not realistically consider these as options.

If you had asked "can the average family try to reduce their oil addiction", then obviously yes, but cure it, definitely not IMO.

[Revi]

I had "no, the average family can't do anything" on the poll originally, but it didn't get posted for some reason. Anyway, I agree with you. There is no way to completely give oil up. It's like giving up food. We can go on a diet. The maybe option seems to be winning anyway. I just wanted to throw the option of doing something out there. It's fun to see what people think. I know that the odds of survival are slim, but I prefer to think positive and do things to improve our chances.

I like the analogy to the Titanic. We have already hit the iceberg and the lower classes are locked under the deck. The rich are already off on the lifeboats and us middle class are on the tilting back deck listening to the band. I figure I'll tie a bunch of deck chairs together to make a raft. If we are really all doomed I will be able to watch the show in relative comfort. I might even make it through. Who knows?

[Revi]

Great article by Robert Newman, Montequest. I agree with everything that he says. We need a local economy to get through this. There is no other way. As the dinosaurs fell the little mammals did better. Big capitalism may be dead anyway. They just don't know it yet. Look at GM, Ford, etc. It's the little companies that are making it now.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')It's capitalism or a habitable planet -- you can't have both