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What is the best way to introduce people to peak oil?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: What is the best way to introduce people to the problem?

Unread postby abbcampbell » Wed 30 Nov 2005, 19:57:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('foodnotlawns', 'I') don't mean to derail your thread. A free dating site like Craig's List is a fantastic place to talk one on one with someone about Peak Oil. Give it a try. Go for the hippie liberal types.


No problems. I was derailing my own thread asking about your motivation. For what it's worth, I can sympathize with the office job thing.

As for Craig's List.. I'm married with two kids and, while my wife is a very understanding woman, I don't think getting on a cyber-dating site would be the best thing for our marriage, regardless of my altruistic intentions for educating the world about our future.

I'd find it difficult to accept if she did it, so I'll have to leave educating the lonley liberal hippie types to you, and I'll just stick to trying to bring my own liberal hippie wife on board myself. :lol:

... you see, I'd rather face peak oil with my gonads still attached. :oops:
Unless someone, like you,
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better.
It's not.
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Re: What is the best way to introduce people to the problem?

Unread postby OneLoneClone » Wed 30 Nov 2005, 20:06:21

OK, I have some advice on this subject.

If the person is a hard-ass realist conservative type try this oblique approach:
Resource Wars - by Micheal Klare
ISBN: 0805055762
or
Sleeping with the Devil - by Robert Baer
ISBN: 1400052688

If they are techincal go with Dreffeys or Simmons
Beyond Oil
ISBN: 0809029561
or
Twighlight in the Desert
ISBN: 047173876X

If they are illiterate or functionally illiterate (can read but dont) try renting "the End of Suburbia'. Netflix has it, if you subscribe.

and for everyone else just forward them a link to Kunster's article in Rolling Stone
The Long Emergency and let them buy the book if they want

and then back off and dont freak them out too much, there is nothing to gain by being a pest
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Re: What is the best way to introduce people to peak oil?

Unread postby cynthia » Wed 30 Nov 2005, 22:13:17

I'm a fraternity cook. Sometimes I find the occasional opportunity to mention Peak Oil. For example, today a student came into the kitchen and said to his friend, "Gold is over $500 an ounce. I said, "Yeah, I read that on Peak Oil. Com
They both looked at me blankly and went on to discuss a few other metal prices. Since no one asked this time what the hell I was talking about I let it go. Just planting seeds.
Another time, I had a better opportunity to discuss PO indepth with a student and told him to google peak oil or just look up this site. Don't know if he did. I keep it low key with the kids especially since they rarely keep up with current events-never mind world events.
With my family and friends, I've been casually mentioning the end of inexpensive, free flowing oil. Most folks just don't want to visit this subject and again I let it go.
It's tempting to mention something in the holiday letter but don't know if I'll go there.
As an aside, today while walking my dog, I watched in utter dismay as a humvee raced past me hauling a trailer full of ATM's. I thought, burn the gas man, just burn it up!
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Re: What is the best way to introduce people to peak oil?

Unread postby thuja » Wed 30 Nov 2005, 22:18:05

I dress up in full military survival gear and syphon gas out of cars and when people catch me I scream "We're all gonna die!" Then I run away. On the back of my jacket I have a big sign that says "peakoil.com" They usually put two and two together.
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Re: What is the best way to introduce people to peak oil?

Unread postby cynthia » Wed 30 Nov 2005, 23:08:19

Oh, Thuja! You're a hoot!
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Re: What is the best way to introduce people to peak oil?

Unread postby PeakOiler » Fri 02 Dec 2005, 20:09:27

I downloaded the US EIA oil production XL spreadsheet, plotted the Hubbert Curve, and taped the graph on my office wall next to ASPO's Projected World Oil production peak as well as the ASPO Oil Discovery graph for the world.

When visitors come to my office, well, a picture is worth a thousand words...so there's at least 3000 words there for all to see.

It is an easy conversation starter or at least a "seed" in their mind if no comment is made concerning the graphs.

The most common response has been: they'll come up with something to replace oil...
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Re: What is the best way to introduce people to peak oil?

Unread postby Wahoo » Thu 12 Jan 2006, 13:37:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SarahC1975', 'H')ow did you find out about it? Whatever worked on you is likely to work with your friends and family.

I've found either people listen or they don't. The particular site or book doesn't make that much of a difference. Maybe a little, but not that much.
I don't think this is the right approach to take, because the willingness/ability to accept Peak Oil as fact varies greatly from person to person. I think presentation is important to get people to grab on to the idea.

I'm 100% pragmatic, realistic, analytical. I don't relate emotionally to Peak Oil. I just found out about it in late December, and am making preparations. It's gonna happen, don't know for sure how the decline will manifest, but I'm going to be as ready as I can. I think my preparations will be enough to ensure a sustainable future for me, my immediate family, and some (but not all) relatives. I'm not losing any sleep about it, because that is silly and counterproductive. It is what it is.

That is how I relate to it. However, most of the people surrounding me operate from an emotional base (rather than a rational/analytical base). I am scared these people are going to FREAK OUT. I don't mean freak out and then get busy in preparation. I mean freak out, take a bunch of Paxil and Xanax, and cry quietly as they watch tonight's episode of American Idol or Biggest Fatty. Either that, or tell me that they (government, big oil, clever Japanese) will find a solution, so quit worrying. Or say "hydrogen".

POINT: I can't tell them in the way that works for me. I just got the facts from LATOC. Giving my friends and family a straight shot of facts will not end well. I TOTALLY agree with abbcampbell, don't push your agenda. Just get them to accept that peak will happen. They will naturally form their own path from there.

The question is, what is the most effective way of introducing the idea so that it will take seed in a productive way? I have thoughts on this, but have to go to lunch. Will post more later.
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Re: What is the best way to introduce people to the problem?

Unread postby quiltea » Thu 12 Jan 2006, 14:06:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('abbcampbell', 'I') found Matt Savinar's site, and it did a good job of educating me....., I very nearly committed suicide, ...


Absolutely! I first learned about Peak Oil from Matt Savinar's site and I did FREAK OUT. For a couple days at least. It took me several months to go through the various stages mentioned on other threads here, to where I've come to acceptance, although I do still slip back into fear now and then.

So I don't recommend Matt Savinar's site to folks when I talk about Peak Oil. Usually I bring it up in conversation by mentioning what I've been obsessed or consumed with lately...peak oil...which I explain is a theory which I'm not sure whether to believe or not. And then I go on to explain the theory, the sites I've read and the books I've read. I figure by suggesting that I'm not sure I believe it or not, I leave it to the listener to decide for themselves. And I suggest they google for Peak Oil for themselves.

Of course, I do believe the theory. I'm just not sure whether I believe the doomers or the optimists about what will happen next.
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Re: What is the best way to introduce people to peak oil?

Unread postby benzoil » Thu 12 Jan 2006, 15:28:35

Savinar's web site sure is a boot to the head for most people. I stumbled onto Peak Oil from an interview on salon.com with James Kunstler. It intrigued me enough to read his book, The Long Emergency. That, in turn, led me to Savinar's web site. Even after reading an entire book, Matt's web site was still a tour de force.

I've introduced two people to peak oil so far: my wife, and a science teacher friend. I did so using the End of Suburbia DVD. This seemed to work. Both are pretty well sold on peak oil and its implications. Neither is a raving loon about it the way I am, but you can't have it all. Both, however, were "ready" to hear what was being said.

End of Suburbia has a pretty good EROEI if you will. It takes about 90 minutes to watch and sums up the arguments well enough. The Long Emergency and any book is a much more substantial investment of time. Doubly so for people who don't read much.

That said, if someone does show an interest in following up, I think that a good progression is as follows:

End of Suburbia
Savinar's web site
This web site.

I've brought it up a couple times at work during discussions about oil prices pre- and post-Katrina. I explained it very gently, but most people are simply not going to think much about it unless forced to. This led me to a philosophical breaktrhough that may help you:

Theorum: It is much easier to buy something at FoolMart with money made sitting in an office cubicle than it is to make or grow the thing yourself. The energy spent is near zero, both in mind and effort.

Corollary: Given how messed up and busy most people's lives are, 99% of them will not voluntarily introduce complications into it. Thus, you get a shrug and a "they'll think of something" response to peak oil.

Hope this helps!

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Re: What is the best way to introduce people to peak oil?

Unread postby Wahoo » Thu 12 Jan 2006, 17:40:38

Thanks to both quiltea and benzoil for the response. Both posts helped me. I agree with you, quiltea, that it is a good idea to throw it out as a "theory I'm stuck on", but not a belief that you're selling. Doesn't sound like proselytizing if you aren't professing absolute belief (even if you have absolute belief). benzoil, I agree with your corollary; people don't voluntarily complicate their lives. All of the implications of peak oil are complicated, and there isn't a "right response". It's easiest just to ignore it.

Here's my approach. I am making wholesale changes in my lifestyle. Those closest to me will notice, and as I approach them about peak oil, I will make very clear that all of these changes are because of peak oil. That should add some validity to the discussion, make them at least say "Hmmm!". Once a few friends and family are aware, I can rely on group influence to reach the others. I won't be the one crazy guy in the group screaming "THE END OF THE WORLD!". I will be part of a group discussion. Peak Oil can't be dismissed immediately if 6-8 trusted people in the group are preparing for it.

I have already made some fundamental changes in my life. I haven't exercised regularly in years; now I'm running (almost) every day, doing push-ups, sit-ups, stretching, etc. I'm not drinking soda, quit eating fast food. Gotta get fit NOW. I was going to buy a nice new car, 300+ HP. Not now. Sticking with the Honda I have that is paid off. Was going to buy a 40,000 watt natural gas generator (I live in Florida, wanted power after hurricanes). Cancel that, I'm saving that money for preparation. Discretionary income isn't for shiny trinkets anymore. Outdoor gear, guns, books, supplies, food; time to stock up.

I've talked to my wife. She's sad, but she's tough and she gets it. I'm going to start talking to close family and friends next month. I'll follow up with "End of Suburbia" when appropriate.

BOTTOM LINE: Lead by example. My actions will lend credibility to my words.
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