[Dragoneye]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('small_steps', 'F')irst of all, electric motors are energy conversion devices. This is true if permanent magnets are used or not. At a fundemental level, they convert current to torque (motoring) and torque to current (generating).

If you have two strong magnets, you can feel how the effects of the attraction/ repulsion between them. Safety glasses and gloves should be used if you are actually doing this!
To understand how a motor works, you only need three magnets. Two will emulate the rotor flux of a machine, and the third will act as the flux generated by the stator current. Place two of the magnets on a file cabinet, oven or fridge door, fairly close together, so that the magnets have alternating poles into the fridge (and also toward you). Now hold the third magnet over one of the others(do so tightly as the magnet will want to jump toward or away from the other magnet, and toward the surface of the fridge,etc as a loose magnet may easily damage the paint of the fridge, and the magnet could easily brake into a number of pieces), and slide the magnet you are holding toward the other. What you feel is the effect of changing the angle of the current that is fed to the machine. By moving your hand toward and away from the surface of the fridge, you are emulating the effect of increasing or reducing the current in the winding.
The force that you feel is translated into a moment (torque) as the force acts at a distance of the airgap of the machine.

The permanent magnets that are used in machines provide ONE of the sources of flux, the other is produced by the current. In induction machines, both the stator and rotor are produced by stator current, the stator directly, and the rotor as induced by the change in flux (induced = induction).

The decrease in magnet flux over time is not really a problem (think of the relatively short winding insulation lifetime), as long as the machine is properly designed for the magnet material used (that is the temps and demagnetizing fields that the magnet will be exposed to).

[small_steps]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dragoneye', '
')pretty much exact... so what if the magnets wear out over time? its alot cheaper to work on and alot easier to work on than a gas motor, not to mention smaller and lighter...

[Aedo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dragoneye', '
')everyone is looking at it as if im using the power thats IN the magnets to power it.... im not..

[aldente]

Beside the fact that it is common sense that free energy is not "free" one has to give credit to those who over the centuries again and again put an effort in the thought at least of making the impossible possible.

Here a great selection of drawings that go back to Johann Bessler who lived in the early 1700's:
Maschinen Traktate



(And no, neither of them work - this is just for the sake of it, enjoy the thought process that went into it back then).

[gg3]

Dragoneye, if you have something you think works, take it to a university lab and have a graduate student hook it up on a test bench.

What you want to measure is energy in and energy out, using standard power sources and electrical loads. This should all be fairly obvious to anyone with the relevant skills/training, so go at it and let us know what happens.

The idea of using magnets as energy storage devices is potentially interesting for certain applications, but I tend to believe there are far more efficient ways of storing energy. And in any case, we still haven't exhausted the potential of sun, wind, uranium, and thorium, all of which are abundant and easily put to use.

[Dragoneye]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'D')ragoneye, if you have something you think works, take it to a university lab and have a graduate student hook it up on a test bench.

What you want to measure is energy in and energy out, using standard power sources and electrical loads. This should all be fairly obvious to anyone with the relevant skills/training, so go at it and let us know what happens.

The idea of using magnets as energy storage devices is potentially interesting for certain applications, but I tend to believe there are far more efficient ways of storing energy. And in any case, we still haven't exhausted the potential of sun, wind, uranium, and thorium, all of which are abundant and easily put to use.

[J-Rod]

I had a customer ask ask me about free energy today. It was almost comical. His line was "How would you like to have free electricity?" He was a smart guy, a teacher. However he has been bamboozled by a guy selling him on the idea of a generator that has a ratio of 5:1 and 100% efficiency. I tried in vain to explain the laws of thermodynamics, but there was no use. He kept telling me that this invention will be unleashed on the world at a coming convention in Cleveland, and he's trying to get people to sign up early for the prototypes. Supposedly free of charge, the company idea is thus: Get people to sign up. The device is owned by the company, and is installed in the home. It uses energy from the grid to start it, and then using the magic tech of rare earth magnets it will generate 5 units for every 1 put in. They give you free electricity, and the rest is sold back to the grid, that's how they make money... Here's a pic and website of this miracle device.

I have a couple of dvds and pamphlets, dunno if I'll bother to watch them. Maybe make some popcorn and pretend it's a comedy.



essay: http://www.bwanetwork.com/electessay.htm?RepID=

It's actually well written, and if the company manages to break the known laws of physics I'll be happy to put my foot in my mouth. I am not holding my breath.

[small_steps]

For you folks that would like to read a bit on magnetics
I might suggest searching for David Jiles, he has a number of papers (some that might be found through a websearch), as well as a fairly good book "Intro to Magnetism and Magnetic Materials"

If you would like to read about some of the issues involved with PM machines, I would suggest "Design of Brushless Permanent Magnet Motors" by Hendershot and Miller.

There is also a paper By a Stanley Trout called
"UNDERSTANDING PERMANENT MAGNET MATERIALS;
AN ATTEMPT AT UNIVERSAL MAGNETIC LITERACY", that is fairly straightforward, and he has a few other materials in the public domain, you may want to check these and the references he cites for fairly decent and easy to understand explinations.

You might also want to take a look at:
http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/FAQs_ ... frame.html

[lakeweb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('small_steps', 'F')or you folks that would like to read a bit on magnetics...

[markam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')iether "Lutec" nor the patent application # with the US office found any matches

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('markam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')iether "Lutec" nor the patent application # with the US office found any matches

[small_steps]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lakeweb', '
')Magnetism is only a mathematical proxy for the relative movement of charge. There is no real entity, magnetism. This is why the term 'electromagnetism' has been supersede by 'electrodynamics' in today’s physics.

Best, Dan.

[funzone36]

This is Peter Lindemann's biography:

Peter A. Lindemann became interested in Free Energy in 1973, when he was introduced to the work of Edwin Gray. By 1981, he had developed his own Free Energy systems based on variable reluctance generators and pulsed motor designs. During the 1980's, he worked off and on with both Bruce DePalma and Eric Dollard. In 1988, he joined the Board of Directors at Borderland Sciences Research Foundation, and served until 1999. Currently, he is a Research Associate of Dr. Robert Adams in New Zealand, as well as a close collaborator with Trevor James Constable in the United States. Dr. Lindemann is one of the foremost authorities on the practical applications of Ether technology and Cold Electricity. He is currently Director of Research for Clear Tech, Inc.

http://www.free-energy.ws/lindemann.html

Peter Lindemann says that free energy actually exists. There are only four gigantic forces that has kept it at bay. These are:

1) the Wealthiest Families and their Central Banking institutions
2) National Governments
3) group of deluded inventors and out right charlatans and con men
4) all of the rest of us

He says that if we want free energy, we must start to act now.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/freeenergy

[aldente]

Excellent post, I like point four in your listing.

Quote:

There are four gigantic forces that have worked together to create this situation. To say that there is and has been a "conspiracy" to suppress this technology only leads to a superficial understanding of the world, and it places the blame for this completely outside of ourselves. Our willingness to remain ignorant and actionless in the face of this situation has always been interpreted by two of these forces as "implied consent."

End quote.

[elroy]

A plea for donations disguised as philantropy. I already thought there would be something.
Not buying it until I see it with my own eyes.

[aldente]

Well, Elroy, how far do you think a thread like this makes it on this forum these days?

I like to watch movies from the 70's for some reason recently and it is ridiculous to look back. If this forum would have been hosted already in 1976 (don't stumble over the oxymoron) it sure would have been ......what...? Any input anyone?

Never dismiss time as the ultimate ruler. At least that's my observation of things. The fact that one concludes is secondary.

[Michel]

Énergie 100% propre. Free energy.

The operation of a float of the engine 01 11357

The operation of a float. Ex.:



We manufacture the float (variable volume) in such way, that in state of minimal volume it weighs 10 kg UNDER WATER, and in a maximum state of volume it weighs less than water (-)10 kg, so that it emerges worm surface. Ex., if its weight is = 110 kg, its volume is = 100 liters in a its state of min. volume and 120 liters in the state of max. volume.
The float is hermetic, inside is the air and its mechanism, by ex.:



The mechanism includes/understands the mass (any concrete mass e.g. or a volume filled with sand), which is fixed at the end of an arm of lever. Inside are them (or it) springs with gas, and the piston. The spring with gas it is a cylinder with the piston, filled by nitrogen under the pressure. The springs with gas, e.g. are used in the cars for the maintenance of the back door (or of cap), which opens upwards.
The float is under water, e.g. with the depth 3 m, the piston turned worm the top, as shown on the drawing:



We analyze that happens: The mass (e.g. of a weight = 100 kg) will move worm bottom, it will move (will attract inside) the piston, by decreasing the volume of the float and by compressing the springs with gas (to which we store the potential energy).
With the depth 3 m the pressure of water = 0,3 kg /cm². This pressure operate the piston with the force, proportional A overrates it piston. If piston overrates it = 800 cm², water with the 3 m depth will operate the piston by the force of: 800 * 0,3 = 240 kg. At the end of arm of the lever one will have 240/2 = 120 kg. If the springs with gas are at the end of the lever, on the springs one will have the weight of the mass (100 kg) and forces it of 120 kg, coming from the piston. At the end of arm of the lever one will have: 100 + 120 = 220 kg. We choose the springs with gas of a force of thorough = 220 kg.
The float decreases its volume, its weight under water becomes = 10 kg and it cule worm the bottom. Let us admit that the depth of the pissine is = 8 m. The float passes from the 3 m depth until the depth of 8 Mr. Chemin traversed = 5 m.
Let us admit that the height of the float makes it possible the mass to move at the distance = 50 cm. The course of the mass = 50 cm. Since the piston is pushed by the medium of the lever, it will pass the distance 50/2 = 25 cm. Piston = 800 cm² overrates * 25 cm = 20 000 cm.cube = 20 liters. The displacement of the piston with decreased the volume of the float to 20 liters. For a weight of 110 kg and the volume (of the float under water) of 100 liters, its weight (under water) is = 10 kg. The float of 10 kg "falls" from a 5 m height (under the effect of the gravitation). The float "fell" (run) to the depth 8 m. The mass inside the float is in bottom, the piston is moved (is attracted) inside.
Now we turn over the float to 180 °. For that one must raise a weight of 10 kg to the 50 cm height (the float weighs under water 10 kg, the mass is in bottom) so that the mass passes to the top. Mass = 50 cm traverse. The float will be found in this position:



The gravitation and the springs with gas (they will return energy accumulated) will move the mass worm bottom, will push the piston worm bottom (interior worm outside), having increased the volume of the float by 20 liters. Maintaining the float is lighter than water, it weighs under water (-)10 kg and will assemble worm the top, worm depth the 3 m, there one stops it.
The float, "while falling" from the 5 m height produces energy and to turn over it, it is also necessary to spend energy. C.t.d., the float (10 kg)"fell" from a 5 m height and to turn over it, it should be raised (its weight of 10 kg while turning over it) to a 50 cm height.
From here: 5 m - 0,5 m = 4,5 m - the distance, on the which float produces energy. Energy does not depend on the trajectory, but only on the height. For the top (with the depth 3 m) it is necessary turned over again, while spending the same quantity of energy that in bottom, and it runs, etc.
So that the floats are turned over themselves and to increase the power of system, we fix the floats at a chain (or chains), which circumvent the wheels and the floats are turned over, by circumventing the wheels.
Ex. like that: (the diagram)



The floats are turned over to 180 ° in top and to 180 ° in bottom, by circumventing the wheels and they produces useful work (energy) while going down (while running) and while going up (while floating worm top).

Calculation of engine 01 11357 (exemple).

It is considered, that the wheel axle sup. is on the level of overrates water, and one selected the weight of mass.
Ex. one selected the weight of the mass = 100 kg.
Ex. the distance enters the axes of the wheels = 5 m.
From here, the pressure has the depth 5 m = 0.5 kg/cm². (to include/understand, to see the point "D", diagram).
From (for this depth) we calculate the surface of the piston, in not do not forget that one with the springs has gases, which are compress (the spring has gas were compressed by the mass, when the float this found in top, of dimension right, on the level of the wheel axle sup.).

To counter the pressure of water the 5 m depth there is lays out:
100 kgf (weight of the mass) + 100 kgf (the force of pushed springs has gas) = 200 kgf (this force is at the end of the lever).
Holding account that the piston is thorough (worm outside) by the medium of the lever, the force is multiplied by 2: 200 kgf X 2 = 400 kgf.

Since the distance enters the axes = 5 m and to the pressure of water to the 5 m depth = 0.5 kg/cm², consequently:
- 400 kgf/0.5 kg/cm² = 800 cm² (piston overrates it).
From here one calculates coefficient 800/100 = 8. (it is for the convenience, it is easier to make calculate them more detailed with him).

Now, that one found the surface of the piston, one makes the correction for the depth, to which this finds the engine.
The engine is under water, the higher axis this finds with the 3 m depth by ex.
From here: - the pressure has the 3 m depth = of 0.3 kg/cm² (not "B" fig. 1).
We lay out of this pressure on the piston with the point "B" and it will produce the force of thorough on the piston of 800 cm² (the surface of piston) X 0.3 kg/cm² (pressure of water) = 240 kgf. Since this force is applied to the medium of the lever, then, at its end we will obtain: 240/2 = 120 kgf, which is added to the force, which comes from the mass, weighing 100 kilogrammes (fig. 1 point "B").
On the springs with gas there will be (to compress them) the force of 100 kgf (weight of the mass) + 120 kgf (coming from the pressure) = 220 kgf, which one will store in the springs with gas (the force of propulsion, that one will use, when the float moves at the point "D").

The distance between the axes = 5 m, that means that the lower axis this finds with the depth: 3 m + 5 m = 8 m. With this depth (not "D" fig. 1) pressure = 0.8 kg/cm². The piston of 800 cm² operates the force, causes by the pressure of water (0.8 kg/cm²).
800 (piston overrates it) X 0.8 (pressure of water) = 640 kgf This force operate the piston of outside worm the interior.

Now let us look at the force on the side opposite of piston:
- 100 kg - the weight of the mass.
- 220 kg - the force of propulsion of the springs.
Total: 100 kgf + 220 kgf = 320 kgf. This force acts on the end of the lever. In the medium of the lever (and on the piston) one will have 320 X 2 = 640 kgf.

The forces of propulsion are identical on two sides of the piston (outside and interior).
One little to leave like that. In this case in high A right (not "B") the piston will move worm the lower interior (increases the pressure of water in connection with the increase depth), and in bottom left it has will move worm outside above point "D"; (the pressure of water will decrease).

But one little also to increase the weight of the masses with 5-10-20... kg to calculate these weights it is necessary to hold account, primarily, of the losses for frictions, which comes from the springs with gas.

It is all.

______________
S.M.
http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr

[Doly]

Oh, these perpetual motion machines! They never work, did you know that? The first law of thermodinamics guarantees that. There is no such thing as free energy.

In this particular device, it's obvious that friction hasn't been taken into account.

[ThunderChunky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'O')h, these perpetual motion machines! They never work, did you know that? The first law of thermodinamics guarantees that. There is no such thing as free energy.

In this particular device, it's obvious that friction hasn't been taken into account.

[Michel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'O')h, these perpetual motion machines! They never work, did you know that? The first law of thermodinamics guarantees that. There is no such thing as free energy.

In this particular device, it's obvious that friction hasn't been taken into account.