[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut the federal government has been as much an inhibitor to those civil rights as an arbiter.

[emersonbiggins]

I just find it hard to believe that ideological enclaves (like Austin, for instance) are going to be conquered without a fight. My trepidation with regards to the future is concern that anti-intellectualism will run rampant throughout the deep south, with some of the end-effects that you describe, but I seriously doubt most people will bow to an ideological regime, no matter how 'secure' it makes the people feel. Especially when that 'security' turns out to be the end of rule of law/genocide, etc.

Then again, maybe even we're not above that...

[Leanan]

What concerns me is that it doesn't take a lot of extremists to do that kind of thing. Most Iraqis say they don't want an Islamic state, and certainly the women there don't like losing their rights. But all it takes are a few people harassed or assassinated, a few houses torched, and the rest either leave town or conform to what the extremists want.

One interesting trend is that as the government cuts back its funding of social programs, churches are stepping in to fill the gap. They'll give you food and shelter, find you a job, and watch your children while you're at work. Of course, there's a price. You have to convert. Even if you're not a true believer, it would be awfully hard to speak out against the church if they're the ones feeding you.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'O')ne interesting trend is that as the government cuts back its funding of social programs, churches are stepping in to fill the gap. They'll give you food and shelter, find you a job, and watch your children while you're at work. Of course, there's a price. You have to convert. Even if you're not a true believer, it would be awfully hard to speak out against the church if they're the ones feeding you.

[Leanan]

That's true...but the churches were the government in the old days, and I could see us returning to that.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'T')hat's true...but the churches were the government in the old days, and I could see us returning to that.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', 'S')omebody tell me it will be ok!

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '
')I live in the reddest of states (Texas), and even so, it still carries a 40-45% democratic voting bloc (hardcore, at that). Unless you're suggesting that 45% of Texans are going to be compelled to move to 'friendlier' parts unknown, I remain unconvinced of a shift from a republic towards 'mob rule'...err, democracy. The 'divide' that you mention might be more prevalent in the deep south, but I wouldn't presuppose the outcomes of secession based on the results of the last presidential election. This is why I generally disregard a Yank's (like Kunstler) perspective on regional cultural/political issues in these parts.

[emersonbiggins]

Good points, Ludi. Few of us anywhere march in lockstep. In fact, when I hear such generalizations from someone like Kunstler, I have to laugh. It must be how the Iraqis feel when we're presupposing their 'national sentiment' towards our occupation and their new government, as if there wasn't a diversity of opinion to be had.

[cube]

Is it my imagination or has it become quite fashionable these days to write books about the coming collapse of the USA?

I'm not saying the author doesn't have good points but the comparison of America to the British empire is starting to get old. This author is probably simply trying to cash in on the current trend...kinda like how it was fashionable to write books about e-commerce and stock investing 7 years ago. Remember those days?

Yes I know ALL empires will eventually collapse. I'm quite sure there were authors that wrote books about the coming collapse of the Roman Empire back in it's days. However you may notice such stories have not stood the test of history. I guess they were not very well written.

[Leanan]

The surface conflicts - Bush vs. Kerry, evolution vs. intelligent design, gay marriage vs. reforming gays - won't be the real reason the U.S. collapses. That's what people will blame it on, just as many to this day insist that the reason Rome collapsed was their "decadence."

The real reason, as always, will be resources. And the political squabbling is just a disguise for the real conflict. Both the "red states" and the "blue states" feel they are getting a raw deal. The red states feel they are supporting ghettos full of welfare queens in the northeast and California. The generally wealthier, urbanized blue states feel their tax dollars are going disproportionately to rural red states. Everyone feels like they are paying more in taxes than they are getting back in benefits. Imagine what it will be like in the post-carbon age, when there's a lot less to go around for everyone.

[emersonbiggins]

What will be the rallying cry when the welfare state is done and the reality of liquid resource depletion sets in? What battle cry for bloodthirsty justice will put gas in the tanks? Of course, rationalism isn't the masses' strong suit...

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', ' ') There are many, many people, mostly in big cities, who have never worked a day in their life.

[Seadragon]

This state is so red I don't even recognize it anymore. You, Emerson, are living in the last bastion of blueness. Oh sure, there may be a few patches in the big cities (there always are) but the vast majority here are SUV-driving, gun-toting, tract house-owning, Bush-voting, football-watching, megachurch-worshipping religious fundies who hate gays, whole wheat anything, evolution, and democrats.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Seadragon', 't')he vast majority here are SUV-driving, gun-toting, tract house-owning, Bush-voting, football-watching, megachurch-worshipping religious fundies who hate gays, whole wheat anything, evolution, and democrats.

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')h, the majority of wefare recipients are rural whites.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', '
')Not that I expect the welfare state to collapse any time soon. The government will bribe people with handouts as long as possible. When it can no longer do that, that will be the end of the government.

[Leanan]

I suppose the end could be quite sudden if the world abandons the petrodollar. But I expect it to take longer. Decades, at least. Rome continued to increase the dole, even while their debts grew crippling. Gotta give people their "bread and circuses," or they're going to make your life difficult.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Seadragon', 'T')his state is so red I don't even recognize it anymore. You, Emerson, are living in the last bastion of blueness. Oh sure, there may be a few patches in the big cities (there always are) but the vast majority here are SUV-driving, gun-toting, tract house-owning, Bush-voting, football-watching, megachurch-worshipping religious fundies who hate gays, whole wheat anything, evolution, and democrats.