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THE Hummer/SUV Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby Revi » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 14:32:59

They should name it the EXTINCTION.
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby emersonbiggins » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 14:33:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'I') guess we just have to build bigger garages for the cars, then!

Ahhh, everything's back to normal...

From The Dallas Morning News, today:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]SUV slump may be near end
Rise in values, lower gas prices bode well for demand
After months of slippery decline, full-size sport utility vehicles appear to have finally hit bottom and may be bouncing back.
The wholesale values of used SUVs – sometimes an early indicator of overall demand – increased in October and November, in what could be an encouraging sign for truck-reliant Big Three automakers.
That would be good news for embattled General Motors Corp. On Dec. 5, the GM Assembly Plant in Arlington began producing 2007 Chevrolet Tahoes, GMC Yukons and Cadillac Escalades – new vehicles that are critical to the automaker's hopes for revitalization.
The increase in values of used SUVs was relatively modest: 2 percent in one survey and 3.4 percent in another. But they were the first gains in several months, and they are strong enough that some industry officials see a trend.
"As gas prices come down, it has opened the door for big SUVs to have a little bit of a resurgence," said Tom Kontos, vice president for analytical services at Adesa Inc., which recorded a 2 percent increase in average full-size SUV values in October. "I think it's possible that some of the demand could be back."
"Usually, used prices are fairly consistent," said Tom Libby, senior director of industry analysis at the Power Information Network, a division of J.D. Power and Associates. "To see that change and go back up is usually an indicator of renewed interest in a segment."
Full-size SUV values are still down for the year – 9 percent in the Adesa analysis, 8 percent in the Manheim Inc. survey – but the decline has flattened.
"Year over year, they are still down," said Tom Webb, chief economist at Manheim Inc. "But this was a substantial increase. It may start to level off in the months ahead, but I don't think it will go back down."

My favorite quote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hrough November, combined sales of the full-size SUVs built in Arlington were down 17.6 percent from a year ago. Many analysts believe that the lack of fresh new vehicles in the full-size segment – where most of the SUVs cost at least $35,000 – is a bigger cause for the slump than high gas prices.
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby NevadaGhosts » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 14:53:20

Ford and GM are digging their own graves. RIP. [smilie=violent1.gif]
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby Eli » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 14:57:03

Emir

That is too funny of an article I wonder what they make of the fact that gas prices are now on the rise again.
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby aahala » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 15:14:16

As the article stated, Ford is in direct competition with GM. The finish
line is the door to the courthouse to file for bankruptcy.

The prize is an anticipated federal bailout.
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby FairMaiden » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 15:25:55

I really have to wonder if they are just PURPOSEFULLY pushing themselves into bankruptcy for some reason we can't see? I mean - they cannot possibly be this stupid!? The waiting line for a hybrid vehicle here is 6 months. Sales for smart and mini cars are sky rocketing...why not just make what ppl want?
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby emersonbiggins » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 15:28:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'E')mir, That is too funny of an article I wonder what they make of the fact that gas prices are now on the rise again.

These kinds of news articles are dutifully walking the tightrope between maintaining consensus trance and plain-out lying. Some 'analysts' will say anything so we don't have to wake up with a regrettable hangover (and they won't wake up with worthless stock options)...
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby Leanan » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 15:31:29

Because they don't actually make any money from selling cars. They make their real money from financing car loans. A big, expensive car is profitable to finance; a little car isn't.

The U.S. economy in microcosm...
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby dub_scratch » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 15:38:21

Everybody thinks that these SUVs & trucks have no usefulness after the oil crash. Au contraire, these vehicles have very good toeing capacity, which means they can haul fairly large trailers that carry a lot of people.

Oh yea baby. Get that giant Ford SUV and forget the hybrid. We're all gonna get a lot more use out of that Excursion. Believe you me.
:-D
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby Leanan » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 15:41:01

Not to mention they're a lot more comfortable if you have to live in your car...
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby Eli » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 15:48:43

There is another huge reason for them to declare.

They have huge pension liabilities that they need to get rid of the other thing is they have promised health care for their retired employees which is no killing them as far as costs go. Bankruptcy is the only way they can get out of this mess that or start selling cars again like mad, looks like they are choosing option one.
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Another reason why people buy SUVs

Postby johnmarkos » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 16:31:39

As the father of a five-and-a-half month old, I have become aware of something that I only had a dim consciousness of before. This is the child safety seat. U.S. law requires that children sit in special seats until . . . well, basically until they're old enough to drive themselves. Our son just grew out of his tiny infant seat so we bought one that will last until he weighs 65 pounds (in my family one generally reaches this landmark around age 11).

So, what's my point? We're having a heck of a time fitting this super-sized child seat into our 2001 Honda Civic, a foor door sedan. Although the name "Honda Civic" conjures up an image of a tiny econobox, anyone who has tried to park this car on a San Francisco street will tell you that it is not a small car. Nonetheless, the seat doesn't fit behind the driver's seat if I have pushed it back far enough to accommodate my legs. Of course, this is fine with me because I don't like to drive anyway. We're not getting a bigger car -- my wife can drive. But I'm only 5'6"! What I'm getting at here is, some SUV buyers may not be thinking, "Oh, I want an SUV because I hate nature and I want to pave the planet." Rather, the impetus to buy an SUV may be a simple car seat.

Another possible source of conservation from an unlikely place: if someone can design a quality child car seat (not just for infants but toddlers, too) that fits into a compact or mid-sized sedan, it could deter some SUV purchases.
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Re: Another reason why people buy SUVs

Postby emersonbiggins » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 16:46:36

Another victory for government-mandated market/privacy instrusion, this time ostensibly for "the safety of the children." I'm not that old and I remember staring right at a metal dashboard when I was 6 or so.
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby Sgs-Cruz » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 17:11:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dub_scratch', 'E')verybody thinks that these SUVs & trucks have no usefulness after the oil crash. Au contraire, these vehicles have very good toeing capacity, which means they can haul fairly large trailers that carry a lot of people.

Oh yea baby. Get that giant Ford SUV and forget the hybrid. We're all gonna get a lot more use out of that Excursion. Believe you me.
:-D
A truck, perhaps. If you are of the persuasion that society is going to undergo some sort of collapse post-peak, it's probably a good idea.

However, in that case, you wouldn't want an SUV, and certainly not a new SUV. A truck is infinitely more practical than an SUV - same towing capacity, far higher cargo capacity, often more ruggedly built. And if you think society is going to go by the wayside, then the complicated electronic parts in a brand new vehicle could be kinda hard to get. You'd want the truck equivalent of a late-80s Honda air-cooled motorcycle: something durable, simple, and easy to repair.
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby strider3700 » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 17:25:23

Then you are probably looking for a 70's era ford F 250. There are millions of those things kicking around dirt cheap and with a million parts for them.
Everyone thats ever worked on a vehicle can work on one without thinking.
Of course they guzzle gas and are rusting away rather quickly these days.
Post peak give up on the idea that you can drive.
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby killJOY » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 17:42:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey should name it the EXTINCTION.

Or the EXCRETION.
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Re: Ford supersizes the SUV

Postby oowolf » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 17:55:02

How about...the EXPLETIVE?
http://www.answers.com/topic/expletive
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Re: Another reason why people buy SUVs

Postby nero » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 18:02:29

I'll back this up, my brother bought an SUV for this exact same reason, so that getting in and out of the car with the baby isn't such a pain.

I bet the car companies just love the new rules about car seats, it's just one more incentive to buy an SUV. I'm not saying the rules are a bad idea, but it would be nice if they designed a car where the standard seats could be replaced with children sized seats, instead of having a child seat placed on top of the current seat and in effect reducing the room in the car. I really wonder what people do who have three small children? Is this another reason why large families are so rare nowadays?
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Re: Another reason why people buy SUVs

Postby Andy » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 18:14:53

What about a small Minivan? They have better fuel economy than SUVs and have way more interior room. That is no excuse.
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Re: Another reason why people buy SUVs

Postby johnmarkos » Tue 13 Dec 2005, 18:29:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Andy', 'W')hat about a small Minivan? They have better fuel economy than SUVs and have way more interior room. That is no excuse.

Well, you're right. My friends bought a small minivan after -- surprise! -- they had twins (they already had a toddler). Sure, it's a viable option. But I'm not talking about individual behavior and I'm not pointing fingers here. I'm talking about the aggregate sum of motivations that moves a subset of consumers to make a particular choice. So, say a few hundred thousand car buyers were eyeing Priuses (Prii?) but they were also eyeing Jeep Cherokees. The minivan doesn't even come into the picture (I don't know why -- too uncool, I guess). There are eight points in the Prius column and eight points in the Jeep column. The car seat issue tips the balance over to the Jeep.
Now imagine a variant of this scenario in a hundred thousand showrooms -- that's what I'm talking about here.
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