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My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

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My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby UIUCstudent01 » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 00:24:45

(Warning: I use naughty words. Visit a 'developing' world if you think you are offended.)
(It’s very long. But I just need to get stuff of my chest because my thoughts become clearer if I type them down. And I don’t have a blog, so the forum will do because nobody really remotely cares about this crap that I know. So you guys are my surrogate bitching-to-guys.)

As some of you know, and many of you probably agree with me, I think that the news media (especially in America) suck ass. But this newest wave of "The War on Christmas" crap makes me very pessimistic about everything (how they can get away with it and how a few people can believe it because they see it on the news)...

Now, as a member of the general American public and since I grew up Catholic... I find the whole "War on Christmas" thing to be completely fabricated by Fox News and all the cable news channels. If anybody thinks that "Happy Holidays" is an attack on Christmas - I've got a second holiday: New Year's. You can’t say “Happy Christmas and Happy New Year” when you are completely jaded by the senseless noise on the T.V. and radio (advertising). It’s too long to be a routine.

Recently there has been a poll on MSNBC.com - I couldn't believe it when I saw it:

Do you believe there is really a "war on Christmas"?

* 33200 responses
Yes
48%
No
52%

BUT ALSO: At another page on their website (it's the December 7th poll), they rephrase the same poll and it leads to the same exact page (the above page):

Should the White House card say "Happy Holidays" or "Merry Christmas"?
Happy Holidays Merry Christmas



Before seeing both poll questions, I really didn't get how 15,000 people could vote "Yes" until you see that the same poll is actually two different polls. Most people would vote "No" on the first poll, and "Yes" which is equivalent to "Happy Holidays" on the second poll. Most people I think would agree that saying "Happy Holidays" is not the same thing as a "war on christmas".

And thus you have very obfuscated and dishonest results... I used to think that most people were just dumb... more and more, I'm becoming to realize that it may be purposeful and downright evil manipulation to make people think they are alone in their opinion or hold a ‘controversial’ one.

This dishonest polling is absolutely absurd at this point. But considering that we have people in a leadership positions that get their inspirations from 1984, Animal Farm, and the like, this isn’t as surprising as it should be. We have gotten to a point in society where this crap is an everday thing... and it's really getting tiresome to me - but only because I pay attention and find the time to analyze this kind of shit.

The only reason these media receive so much attention is because they have the cash to be everywhere and anywhere. You can't escape FoxNews/MSNBC/CNN if you get basic cable (or satellite) - which the average TV-watching American considers to be pretty much a standard stuff). The reason to why they are terribly powerful and widespread is because they feed the official line and are more than amiable to requests from the government or any corporation. They also get advertising dollars from the most absurd places like Haliburton, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman. These guys don't sell anything to the average guy unless the average guy wants a laser-guided missle. It's more than official that almost the entire news media can be used as an extension to pass government lies.

People tell me to just turn it off or don't pay attention to it. But, the fact is that

1. There are people who don't have the time to think about this stuff and will likely vote based on 'values' or maybe vote for the other guy because they think Bush is an idiot (he's intelligent - but, more and more I don't actually think that whoever is president really matters for big issues like going to war because its decided by other 'interests' or thinktanks or whoever-the-fuck - I'm sure we would be in Iraq even if Gore got elected in 2000...).

2. The news media is a gigantic resource that could educate (and not in any propagandic way) rather than dumb down people. The whole system seems to be eating itself. To generate profits and become a good company for shareholders, and to be good to the government-corporate powers the collective news agencies need to dumb down average Americans and pepper them ads for crappy, useless things. We wonder why our education system is 'failing'. The hard truth is that it is profitable to do so. I remember reading a translated speech by Osama Bin Laden or something and it had the metaphor that America is the snake that will eat itself. I think it might be in a Bible or Koran somewhere too… This seems to be very apt metaphor as we are destroying the very systems which let us live… our political system seems to be destroyed, our economy in a post P.O. world is going to be very questionable (considering the focus on home-building, flipping houses, services, and the auto industry), our education these generations (how can someone get into college without knowing how to divide without a calculator? And not be able to write a paragraph that just doesn’t make sense? Usually, people can do one or the other very well… but some of these people..)

3. This is going to tie in to be Peak Oil related I promise, just read my thoughts. People don't and won't have a clue... even if everything continues to function relatively normally for the next 13 years or so (2018 peak is the latest non-uber-optimistic date that I hear). In many factors (education, financial, political America), there doesn't seem to be a great future to look forward to if this bullshit continues... from my perspective – there’s nothing to fight for if we ignore our ability to go to drive. Sometimes, certain events become catalysts that become triggers for change in history, but most of this 'change' is actually brewing in the underneath. (But things have changed, in America, we, as a people, are relatively socially-politically isolated. So, that is another factor that may bring pessimism for a more doomer scenario. And this factor is ignored by just about every grass-roots movement in America ever.)

So finally, that may be the reason I find peak oil 'appealing' - I see all these absurd happenings all around me, and it seems like Peak Oil tends to be the big elephant in the room when environmentalists talk ‘sustainability’ or when oil companies hire mercenaries to gun down villages in (purposely?) unstable countries Africa or why we deal with despots easier than democracies or why we have had huge propaganda campaign against climate change.

I'm also deathly scared of 'peak oil' and what it will do to the planet (I.E. we're already seeing changes in climate that can be very well due to our CO2 emissions and yet we are expecting to emit alot more via Coal-to-liquids scenario). We might be killing the planet, but I like going to the local supermarket.

If I live to be 100, I expect that world will be extremely different (different - as in there will be very little oil going around for the everyday person to go shopping). When I read history books, it seems that things change. And so far, we have been pretty stagnant in terms of our living arrangements and the way we do things. So far, America seems to be stumbling over certain problems that it may have been easily remedied 'back in the day'. So far, oil was never more than political problem. So far, we never really built infrastructure necessary to deal with decreasing supplies of oil. Even now, we are constructing more and more highways... even more inefficient houses in suburbs are being built around the clock for future that's not going to be pleasant to warm up these houses. We are building up to nothing. At most, we can try to retrofit existing homes – but that’s going to be very sloppy and won’t happen overnight as there are too many homes and not enough skilled tradesmen.

More and more I think we are going to go through a depression and into period of either (or both): Militarism or Intense Industrial Renewal focused on energy efficiency and/or weapons. I want to be optimistic and think that we could make it with renewables. But the numbers don’t match up. Plus there is one other thing: The past 1 1/2 years or so that I've been paying attention to P.O., there is combination of things that could go hand in hand in bringing about an abrupt change. The reaction to Katrina and the destruction of New Orleans is going to be read by historians as a pivotal signal in the way the country is heading. We sent troops in. We blocked aid. I hope to God it was neglect based on the fact that they were losing the Iraq war and were focusing their attention in the way of the Middle East. This revelation is just one in a series of where I am just putting two and two together. The following will explain why I think it was so urgent to fully concentrate on Iraq (and the remaking of the Middle East):

At some point, as countries go over their peak, the country won't be selling their oil off to other countries in any significant amount. There is going to be a huge problem for countries that import a large and increasing amount of oil (America in particular with 25% of world demand) when the effect of P.O. on the country is a much sharper downward trend than the natural P.O. downslope. Even if we face a plateau, it may still be a downward slope for America as we are competing against the entire rest of the world for the same amount of oil as demand increases. We aren't going to be able to take it by force much longer – hell, that really wasn’t exactly ‘the plan’ in Iraq.

I recently just heard that "Syrianna" is a word for the remaking of the Middle East. I've also heard that Iraq was supposed to be a free market paradise as a reason why we went in from some 'liberal' journalist. I first thought that was a just an insane reason and thought this very liberal journalist was smoking some kind of 'commy weed' because he wasn't talking sense (Invade Iraq to make a free-market utopia? THAT'S FUCKING INSANE REASON TO START A WAR AND KILL PEOPLE).

Now though, it's pretty clear that there actually was a think-tank or 5 that actually wanted to recreate the entire Middle East, and I think I’m right in assuming that the reason for this was to make oil a commodity that isn’t at risk from countries hoarding the oil to inside their own countries. It's all to protect America (and 'the west') - to protect it from 'oil protectionism' from other countries particularly in the Middle East where it is understatement to say that we are unpopular…

These countries know where to hit us where it hurts – they have a knife up to our balls and we just tried to smack them on the head with a rock in the hopes that they suddenly become free-market ideologues where they sell half of their testicle for a bundle of worthless paper in the hopes that they’ll only cut off one of our testicles. It was a patently ridiculous idea. But it’s what you get when you have people pampered from birth, arrogant, and generally in-sociable to the rest of the world running and thinking for the country. Sigh.

It doesn’t take a genius to realize that the catalyst for our current way of life was oil. The main question is whether we can continue living like we have without oil. There is a lot of hope for all sorts of alternatives. I really would like to believe that nothing will change, but I’m afraid that we have created too many enemies, enemies that will cut our balls off too eagerly before we get a chance to go on an energy efficiency and voluntary power-down spree.

Power down is necessary in all realistic scenarios of the future. More and more, as I see our most powerful teaching tools become filled with inane garbage, my hope for a voluntary power-down scenario goes out the window. An involuntary power-down will no doubt be painful.
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby Falconoffury » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 01:46:50

I blame whatever idiots came up with a growth based economic model without creating a plan to transition out of growth when growth would no longer be possible. Greedy swindlers. I don't want to grow, I just want to live peacefully. America, please let me live peacefully!
"If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
"Bush, Bush, listen well: Two shoes on your head," the protesters chant
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby AmericanEmpire » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 04:24:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') blame whatever idiots came up with a growth based economic model without creating a plan to transition out of growth when growth would no longer be possible.


They didn't give a damn because it benefited them at the time and there were plenty of resources for them. In short it was a problem that wouldn't happen in their lifetimes.

I know if peak oil wasn't gonna happen for another 100 years I probably wouldn't worry about it.
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby medicvet » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 06:11:19

I know the 'war on christmas' is fabricated..but this comes from the group of religious people who manage to turn being persecuted on its head and say that allowing homosexuals the same rights that everyone else has is taking away from their christian rights, and that THEY are the ones whose lifestyle is being persecuted!

Brought to you by the slavery is freedom orwellian school of thought, naturally. :/
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.-H.G. Wells

The only basis for a nation’s prosperity is a religious regard for the rights of others. - ISOCRATES
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby julianj » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 07:57:40

Hi there!

For the benefit of those of us who seem to have missed this one - what is the "War on Christmas"?
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby mrniceguy » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 09:41:57

Great post, but I too would like to know what the war on christmas is.
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby NonToxic » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 10:44:09

Certain groups want the Christmas tree to be called a Holiday tree. So not to offend anyone.

Utter nonsense made to distract you.
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby UIUCstudent01 » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 11:33:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('julianj', 'H')i there!

For the benefit of those of us who seem to have missed this one - what is the "War on Christmas"?


War

On

Christmas

Is

Fucking

(This one is a self-fulfiling prophecy)

Everywhere

ARGH!

Most examples are probably out of context!

WAY TOO MUCH HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT IT EVERYWHERE

I tried to get a wide variety of sources. Blogs, news, online news (like FoxNews, MSNBC), books... Ug.

There is just so much energy tied up on to this charade...

OK - GOOGLE SEARCH - "Peak Oil" and you get 2,340,000 hits.
OK - GOOGLE SEARCH - "War on Christmas" and you get 769,000 hits.
I don't know if this war has been going on for very long either.

:(
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby PrairieMule » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 12:54:32

Interesting posts,

As far as the War on Christmas, I agree it is silly but different reasons. As a baptist I believe it is disapointing to see the word Christmas evaporate and manger scenes banned, but I believe our faith have bigger worries. First and Foremost, Christianity never goes down well when it is forced. Second unless I have been out of the loop, Church has not been cancelled Christmas day for Politically correctness. Finally even I, a christian conservative, can conceede this stinks of a lame attempt to rally a base. It's time the republican party get's it's shit in a sock(pull it together) in 2006, if not we will get our tails handed to us in 2008(Hillary).

As far as your anxiety over the future, I see way to much of that on this website. I'll tell you this as a recovering "survivalist". People need to relax. If peak oil comes next year or in 2018 it will not matter if you cannot relax. Any survival situation weither it is a Hurricane, riot at a gas pump, or simple car wreck requires the ability to relax, not a impressive display of statistical knowledge . It also requires preparation, attitude, and atunement but those are different topics. Don't fight the current, learn to float inspite of the current.

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If you give a man a fish you will have kept him from hunger for a day. If you teach a man to fish he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby mrniceguy » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 13:27:21

Oh I get it, another weapon of mass distraction. Get everyone wound up about some "christmas is being hyjacked" nonsense in order to deflect attention away from the real problems Iraq, oil running out, trade deficit etc.
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby smiley » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 16:42:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ight be enlightening for some


Lol. You beat me to it. If I remember correctly the tree was stolen from the pagan festival of the light. The date for the celebration was chosen by the Romans to replace the Roman festival of Saturn.
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby UIUCstudent01 » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 17:24:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', ':')!:
I was thinking along the same lines last night. I wold love to see things change, to become more rational, to see society think more than a few months in advance. Unfortunately, I don't see any way for that to happen.

I consider myself a very intelligent guy, but in this time and space I can pretty much count on one hand the number of people who would bother taking anything I say even semi-seriously. The plain fact is that people just plain do not get along. They don't listen to each other, they don't trust each other and every societal decision seems to fall prey to the lowest common denominator. I found a quote awhile back that something along the lines of: 'You don't need to worry about how the future is going to turn out because you're never going to be in charge anyways.' I think that pretty much sums it up. Even among the relatively enlightened here, nobody seems to agree very much about what the future will be or how we could make it any different.

For me personally I have come to accept that I am just a leaf floating in the great river of space and time and the very best I can do is to make whatever personal choices I can that help just myself and my nearest family survive what is to come.

One of my father's best sayings is that 'responsibility without authority is a trap.' I therefore refuse to accept responsibility for a world which refuses to acknowledge my authority. The people of Earth, quite frankly, can kiss my big white hairy ass :) I believe they'll just get the fate they justly deserve (as will we all).


Thanks...
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby bobcousins » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 18:30:13

Personally, I would like to get back to pagan rituals. The emphasis on the cyclical nature of life and our closeness to Nature are forefront. The cycle of death and rebirth is celebrated. It is made clear that we are part of that natural cycle. The spirit of Man is the same spirit of Nature. The Earth is God.

By contrast, Christian ethos celebrates the eternal nature of Christ, and says that our soul transcends mere Earth. This says to people that they can exploit the Earth however they wish, it doesn't matter as it is just a temporary domain. God/Christ are eternal and separate to Earth, and one day you will join them in Heaven. You do not need to worry too much what you do to the Earth (as long as you Believe in God), because your soul will be taken to a different place, and the consequences of your actions will only be in the after life, not on Earth.

So Christianity led to highly effective methods of exploiting the Earth's resources, but we lost our connection with Nature, which we are in truth not just inseparable from but fundamentally a part of. Today we are struggling to regain our connection. Maybe we will transcend the bounds of Earth and live in space. But if we cannot, we must live with the consequences of our actions here on Earth.

Happy Winter Solstice everyone!

(The labels pagan and Christian are used generically. I am not interested in pedantic analyses of what these really mean!).
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Re: My Thoughts about PO and origins of my Pessimism.

Unread postby elroy » Mon 12 Dec 2005, 19:07:40

The christian excuse for christmas trees: jerimiah was old testamentian, jesus came and made a new law so it doesn't matter.
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