[Daryl]

Talking about the US of course. If I'm not mistaken the current gas tax is 40 cents a gallon. The proceeds go to highway maintenance? The best proposal I have heard so far is too peg gas at $3 per gallon (its post Katrina high, since it has fallen back to $2.) The wholesale price would fluctuate, so the tax revenue would be variable. Of course, if the wholesale price went above $3, the price would have to go up.

This idea has been proposed by Charles Krauthammer, a Washington Post columnist who is considered an major neo-con Republican insider. This was in the Nov 11 issue of the WP.

[jaws]

I favor selling off the roads.

[Rabbit]

I'd like to gas tax up to the point that it could fully fund road costs.

[Jack]

We can get along nicely - so long as we enjoy abundance. Scarcity makes less agreeable companions.

I can assure you that not all Peak Oilers favor a gas tax. I, for one, don't care for additional taxes. Giving certain elected officials more money is like giving a drunk more whiskey. It's just wrong.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'I') can assure you that not all Peak Oilers favor a gas tax.

[DigitalCubano]

I favor a tax under the conditions that:

1) There is a sufficient lag between ratification and implementation. 2-3 years?
2) That a substantial fraction of the tax revenue is diverted to something besides the highway trust fund (e.g. R&D funding for alternatives, investment in mass transit, a federal buy-back program, etc.)

[Synergist]

Depends what it is used for.

If it's directly put into a program that funds car-pooling, conservation, tax credits for hybrids, better public transport, reduced car use, I could grudgingly accept.

If it's just another excuse for bloated public service employee unions to steal from the public and re-elect their political bosses, then hell no. Go freeze in the dark.

[aahala]

Krauthammer's idea of setting the retail price of gas is a pretty unworkable
concept.

State and local taxes are now set by those identities and now vary considerably. How could we adjust for this within a nationwide price?

Krauthammer also seems to believe when the wholesale price falls, the US
will scoop up the difference. How could this possibly happen unless the
US also set the amount of retailer markup? And if we did set the amount
of retailer markup, the wholesale price would always be no less than
$3 less the retailer markup--as it wouldn't matter to dealers
what the wholesale price was, their total payment would equal $3 less
the markup, some division between the wholesale dealer and the
government. So any difference in wholesale prices wouldn't affect who
the retailer purchased from and therefore the wholesalers will all charge
never less than the $3 less the set retailer markup.
amount

[dub_scratch]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rabbit', 'I')'d like to gas tax up to the point that it could fully fund road costs.

[pup55]

Problems:

a. This would be a highly regressive tax. It has a much greater effect on Joe Nascar than on the rich.

b. It also hits harder out in the rural areas (farmers) where people need to drive to get to town.

c. Who says $3 is the right level? Krauthammer? the cluelss bureaucrats in the Govt? Exxon? Using tax policy to modify behavior opens a can of worms about who it is that gets to decide what behavior gets modified.

d. What keeps the Govt from sending the money down a rathole? Of course, we all know where the money is going now (Bin Laden) so maybe a rathole would be an improvement.

On the other hand, it makes sense to recover the cost of the resource by collecting from the users of the resource. Start by figuring out how much money we are spending on the military to defend our oil supply, dividing it by the number of gallons of gas sold, and then setting the tax at that level. Reduce income taxes by the equivalent amount to allow the farmers and hillbillies to break even.

To pay for highways, put a tax on tires instead. Tires wear out at a known ratio to the wear rate of the roads. Easy to figure out how many tax dollars per tire are needed to raise the money to pay for the roads. This would encourage the development of longer-lasting tires, cutting down on the scrap tire problem, encourage fuel-saving behavior such as getting your alignment right and driving so as not to screech the tires, and get the road users to pay for the roads rather than the people who walk.

Maybe tax them by weight, rather than by the tire, so that lighter vehicles pay less tax. Rail, rather than trucks, would be the preferred method of shipping.

[lawnchair]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')o pay for highways, put a tax on tires instead. Tires wear out at a known ratio to the wear rate of the roads. Easy to figure out how many tax dollars per tire are needed to raise the money to pay for the roads.

[alpha480v]

I don't favor anymore taxes, period. I think most everyone here would agree that the government gets enough of our hard earned tax dollars every April 15th,let alone putting more taxes on our gas. Let the market dictate the price of gasoline,and demand destruction will take care of the rest.

[Daryl]

Alot of interesting points about gas taxes. I didn't know alot of those things. I was more interested in discussing the potential benefits of a gas tax. ie engineered pre peak demand destruction, Jevon's paradox as it related specifically to an increased gas tax.

Also I wanted to discuss some political practicalities ie how to actually get something like this passed in today's environment. For example, making it revenue neutral by lowering other taxes, how to sell it to the public ie market an energy security scare etc.

[lowem]

Over here it's more like 40 cents per dollar.

We're more or less used to it - *shrug*.

The "ongoing game" here is to sign up for the credit cards, loyalty cards and combo thereof that get you the highest discount rates, rebates and/or bonus points that can be used to redeem for catalog items or additional "bonus fuel", which is my preferred option actually.

The more well-off actually get to enjoy more discounts, and it's not like they need it huh ... - for example with one of the Platinum cards or-whatever-they-call-it you get an additional 3% rebate - *if* you earn say either $50K (for residents) or $100K (for foreigners) a year.

Anyone thinking more along Jay Hanson's lines nowadays - "go forth and be rich" etc? Then one can really shrug off taxation, inflation and whatnot ...

[gnm]

Absolutely not! Why the hell would you want to entrust the government with even more of your money? Because they've done such a good job already?

I advocate removing all the tax breaks corporations receive also. Then maybe we'll see the real price.

flat consumption (sales) tax period. No income or other "extortive" taxes.

-G

[The_Virginian]

no.

The misery of Peak Oil will be enough...too much in fact...why add to it?

Conservation won't work, and Kyoto shows how little co-operation their will be if you try ASPO's way of artificialy high prices.

If mankind has a chance of raising a new technology, oil won't buy us time...only wars! Same goes for Nuclear (due to the A-bomb "thinggy"), although Nuclear power may provide the time for a "breakthrough" wonder technology that will save the industrialized world...I am not counting on it.

[nero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('alpha480v', 'I') don't favor anymore taxes, period. I think most everyone here would agree that the government gets enough of our hard earned tax dollars every April 15th,let alone putting more taxes on our gas. Let the market dictate the price of gasoline,and demand destruction will take care of the rest.

[jaws]

The problem with the gas tax idea is that it assumes that the only thing preventing conservation are cheap prices. This ignores the immense system of regulation standing in the way of efficiency, and this system is certainly not going to go away because of higher gas prices. What you will get instead is chaos and pleas to abolish the taxes.

If you want to do something good, work at abolishing the regulations.

[Tyler_JC]

It looks like we have far more people fighting a gas tax than supporting it!

So much for agreeing...

[nero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'I')f you want to do something good, work at abolishing the regulations.