Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Bill would make some golf carts street legal

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 09 Dec 2005, 18:06:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')We believe that DOT should title and register these vehicles, since they are clearly motor vehicles and should be treated like all motor vehicles under state law,” Frazier wrote in a memo to Albers last month. The agency also would like the vehicles restricted to roads with speed limits of 35 mph or less.


In other news, state DOT officials move to raise speed limits on local streets to 36 MPH...lol
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin
User avatar
emersonbiggins
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Dallas

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby SinisterBlueCat » Fri 09 Dec 2005, 18:21:59

:lol:
User avatar
SinisterBlueCat
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 885
Joined: Tue 06 Sep 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby hull3551 » Fri 09 Dec 2005, 19:01:58

These are also common on the Lake Erie islands as means of transportation. And yes, some were pretty fancy and high end.

All we need is for this to become trendy for the SUV crowd and it would work in some places.

Unfortunately in the majority of suburbia and exurbia it would not work, as this is mostly four/six land speedways and everyone's in such a damned hurry to go nowhere.
User avatar
hull3551
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun 13 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Bellingham, Wash

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 09 Dec 2005, 19:10:05

If the aging baby boomers have anything to say about it, this will be the trendy new SUV:
Image
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin
User avatar
emersonbiggins
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Dallas

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby Armageddon » Fri 09 Dec 2005, 19:12:09

that thing rules, i want one
User avatar
Armageddon
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7450
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: St.Louis, Mo

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby hull3551 » Fri 09 Dec 2005, 19:43:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'I')f the aging baby boomers have anything to say about it, this will be the trendy new SUV:


Reminds me of the saying "it's never too late to have a happy childhood." :P
User avatar
hull3551
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun 13 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Bellingham, Wash

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Fri 09 Dec 2005, 19:56:57

Fuck golf carts.

The technology might be useful, but it's much better applied to electrified rail, trolleys, and high performance, highway capable, long range, inexpensive electric vehicles.

$7,000-$15,000 hand-made golf carts that go 25 mph and do 20-40 miles per charge won't cut it. It's merely reinforcing a particular stereotype about the viability of the electric car.

I have nothing against people using these vehicles, don't get me wrong, but do you think they would be using these golf carts as a means of neighborhood transportation if the automakers offered an electric car in the $10,000-$15,000 range that did 85 mph top speed, 50 or more miles per charge, and accelerated like a normal car? Get this: I know of hundreds of people that have built a highway-capable electric car to such specifications themselves for half the price, using components that are virtually hand-built!

Today, it is possible to build a $15,000-20,000 midsized electric car with 200+ miles range per charge and 100 mph top speed. All that is needed is mass production(bring the price of cars and lithium ion batteries down) and perhaps a government willing to tackle oil industry squatting on a NiMH battery patent.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
The_Toecutter
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby mekrob » Fri 09 Dec 2005, 20:13:10

How much electricity would a full charge require? How much would this cost per charge?
mekrob
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Fri 09 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Fri 09 Dec 2005, 21:21:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow much electricity would a full charge require?


Depends upon the capacity of the battery pack and the charging efficiency of the charger and battery

A power factor corrected charger is usually in excess of 92% efficient.

Flooded lead acid batteries are around 70-75% efficient at charging, sealed lead acid batteries about 85%. As they age, this efficiency decreases slightly.

NiMH batteries are around 90-95% efficient at charging and charging efficiency is virtually constant over the life of the battery pack. Same with Lithium Ion batteries.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow much would this cost per charge?


Depends upon the capacity of the battery pack, battery charging efficiency, the charger's efficiency, AND cost per kilowatt hour of electricity.

A typical midsize car converted to electric with no special attention to aerodynamics or weight(Ford Taurus, Dodge Intrepid size and shape vehicles) will consume 250-300 watt hours of electricity per mile from its battery pack travelling at highway speeds. Consumption per mile decreases with speed. City driving might yield consumption of about 200 wh/mile factoring in acceleration, even though a steady 30 mph may only need 90 wh/mile.

A Prius-like midsize car with clean aerodynamics might need 200-250 wh/mile to travel highway speeds.

A small sports car sized and shaped about like an electric RX7 or perhaps a Geo Metro sized compact might only need 200 wh/mile of energy at highway speeds, 150-ish in the city.

An electric pickup truck or SUV will take between 300 and 500 wh/mile to maintain highway speeds.

A purpose built performance racecar OR an efficiency-conscious commuter vehicle both might consume < 150 wh/mile at highway speeds due to both having low weight and good aerodynamics. The racecar might have a lot more power, but a larger electric motor and controller when compared to the smaller, less powerful motor/controller does not see any comparable deviation in efficiency than when comparing a V8 and an inline 4 cylinder. In an electric race car, efficiency will only drop if you actually use the performance; in normal driving their aerodynamics and low weight will actually be able to serve them well due to an electric motor having such a wide range of high efficiency operating points while an ICE has a very narrow range of efficient operating points.


A midsize car with clean aerodynamics with a 200 mile range requirement at 65 mph would need a battery pack of about 40-50 Kwh. Say 50 Kwh, built in mind for a good compromise between a Toyota Prius and a Ford Taurus.

Electricity typically costs about $.08/kWh in the United States for residential areas.

50 Kwh / (.92) / (.90) = 60 Kwh needed to charge from "empty". 50 Kwh makes it into the battery, the rest is lost in the form of heat from charger and battery inefficiency.

That is $4.80 for 200 miles of highway travel. No midsize gas car can hope to match that!
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
The_Toecutter
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby cynthia » Sat 10 Dec 2005, 02:29:30

User avatar
cynthia
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun 29 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby Specop_007 » Sat 10 Dec 2005, 05:44:01

Thats all and good Toecutter...But those pathetic electrics dont go "VRROOOM VROOOOM VRRRROOOOOM". :D
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
User avatar
Specop_007
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5586
Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby hoplite » Sat 10 Dec 2005, 17:32:39

It was culture shock for me to see the devolopement of golf cart only lanes on the streets of Lincoln, CA. The grocery stores even have golf cart only parking areas replete with power terminals to charge your batteries while your shopping.
User avatar
hoplite
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri 22 Oct 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby Revi » Sat 10 Dec 2005, 18:18:01

There are those GEM cars that are available now too. They are little golf cart like things, but they are legal on the roads posted up to 35mph. Perfect for putting around town. I would like to mount solar panels on the roof and have it charge itself. You could park it in a solar garage too.
Maybe they are rolling these electric cars out now to assuage the masses when they can't get gas for their SUV's. They can still continue car culture, but in a much diminished form. It may be our only option.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby EnviroEngr » Wed 14 Dec 2005, 15:39:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', 'h')ttp://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2005/12/06/news/z05sheehand1206.txt


Because of political boundaries of decency, I cannot express openly what should and needs to be said, but SBC, you know as well as I do which side of the tracks Sheryl comes from and whose interests she represents.

If nothing else, I'm glad to know which cards she's buried in the Trick.
-------------------------------------------
| Whose reality is this anyway!? |
-------------------------------------------
(---------< Temet Nosce >---------)
__________________________
User avatar
EnviroEngr
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1790
Joined: Mon 24 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Richland Center, Wisconsin
Top

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby SinisterBlueCat » Wed 14 Dec 2005, 16:07:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', 'h')ttp://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2005/12/06/news/z05sheehand1206.txt


Because of political boundaries of decency, I cannot express openly what should and needs to be said, but SBC, you know as well as I do which side of the tracks Sheryl comes from and whose interests she represents.

If nothing else, I'm glad to know which cards she's buried in the Trick.


yeah, I know, she is a typical right wing conservative republican. Fair enough. I was hoping this would not go political,. because I think the idea has some merit afterall. Especially in a town like where I live or even madison, allowing golf carts to zoom around would be a good thing...dont you think? (the only problem I can see would be winter...snow tires for golf carts maybe?)

I know who she serves, but I cannot stop that stone from rolling...I wish I could, but I cannot... but by the same token I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face either.
User avatar
SinisterBlueCat
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 885
Joined: Tue 06 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby EnviroEngr » Wed 14 Dec 2005, 16:56:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', 'h')ttp://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2005/12/06/news/z05sheehand1206.txt


Because of political boundaries of decency, I cannot express openly what should and needs to be said, but SBC, you know as well as I do which side of the tracks Sheryl comes from and whose interests she represents.

If nothing else, I'm glad to know which cards she's buried in the Trick.


yeah, I know, she is a typical right wing conservative republican. Fair enough. I was hoping this would not go political,. because I think the idea has some merit afterall. Especially in a town like where I live or even madison, allowing golf carts to zoom around would be a good thing...dont you think? (the only problem I can see would be winter...snow tires for golf carts maybe?)

I know who she serves, but I cannot stop that stone from rolling...I wish I could, but I cannot... but by the same token I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face either.


Agreed.

What's needed is a sharp Press knife to pare away the rotting mass from the remaining viable fruit, if you will.

The concept is great, if not merely laudable. But, a coalition or citizens group should have made the headlines with it first with a few Reps. supporting the idea listed at the end of the release/article, instead of what we have.

I'm thinking damage control here. With Albers fronting it like this, it'll become a political football of sickening proportions in no time. The fire-storm to follow could kill this proposal dead in its tracks in quantum time.

Someone needs the temerity to wrest this baby from her hands soon and nurture it the way it should be.
-------------------------------------------
| Whose reality is this anyway!? |
-------------------------------------------
(---------< Temet Nosce >---------)
__________________________
User avatar
EnviroEngr
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1790
Joined: Mon 24 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Richland Center, Wisconsin
Top

Re: Bill would make some golf carts street legal

Unread postby SinisterBlueCat » Wed 14 Dec 2005, 17:19:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', '
')
Agreed.

What's needed is a sharp Press knife to pare away the rotting mass from the remaining viable fruit, if you will.

The concept is great, if not merely laudable. But, a coalition or citizens group should have made the headlines with it first with a few Reps. supporting the idea listed at the end of the release/article, instead of what we have.

I'm thinking damage control here. With Albers fronting it like this, it'll become a political football of sickening proportions in no time. The fire-storm to follow could kill this proposal dead in its tracks in quantum time.

Someone needs the temerity to wrest this baby from her hands soon and nurture it the way it should be.


Absolutely, it would have been spectacular if a coalition or a citizens group had been the first to parade this idea out...but we have so many people that are completely zombie like in their ways it is frightening....the idea of creative thought has been bred out of most people it seems and replaced with the consumption and comfort genes.

Sadly, I think the reason that there are already golf carts in Sun City Arizona is because of the high concentration of older people there...those of the "greatest generation" they know how to get what they want, when they want it... and they come from a time of greater austerity, and they know what it could be like, so we better save a little for a rainy day is their motto. But for the Boomers and the Gen Xers that live most everywhere else, life has always been a warm sunny day...so why bother worrying about running out, it is party on.

And again, I agree with you that someone needs the temerity to take this and run...but whom would you suggest? I know so few people who do things on principal anymore...everything is done in the name of money. Alders or someone with a financial stake, what is really the difference?
User avatar
SinisterBlueCat
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 885
Joined: Tue 06 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top


Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron