[Trab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eric_b', '
')Same thing here. It seems we have fewer cold snaps than we used to,
and the ones we do get aren't as severe as they used to be. And more
thaws too.

Still, after a big snowfall it can takes days for the snow to melt - and
that assumes the temperature is slightly above freezing.

[lotrfan55345]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eric_b', '
')This is a good point. I live in Madison, WI, and already we're having budget
problems. In years where we get a lot of snow we often run into the danger
of going over budget as far as snow removal. It's a big expense. Between
plowing, sanding and salting the roads it takes a giant fleet of big fuel
hungry vehicles to do this.

[sklump]

People will shovel out their own walks.

The roads are going to suffer, but there will be fewer drivers to complain, and any rich enough to make a big noise can pay their own labour to shovel them. To the extent TSHTF, the roads will be excellent bike/ski trails in any case.

[gg3]

Shutting down the economy during weather emergencies is a great idea; it's reasonable, sane, and it matches up with the need for powerdown.

Except for one thing.

While all other forms of economic activity are suspended because workers can't get to their jobs, the relentless tick of the clock of compound interest, as well as rents, continues unabated. That is purely arbitrary as well as senseless, and it can/should be stopped.

When travel via road is suspended, when everything else shuts down, interest and rents should be suspended / shut down as well. *Shared* sacrifice. (And please don't anyone give me any economic BS about this, we can take it up elsewhere.)

---

The way to shovel snow without risking injury or heart attack (yes, it's a large source of heart attacks) is to get out there early and push it off when there's only an inch or two on the driveway/sidewalk. This is not much more strenuous than simply walking the same distance, except you're pushing a wide curved shovel.

Go out every couple of inches and do this, and you won't have a problem accumulation. Obviously this doesn't work in sudden large blizzards, but for the majority of snowstorms it's viable. Speaking from experience; that was my strategy when I was a kid in the northeast.

Generally the key to avoiding injuries & accidents is to move small loads frequently, rather than large loads less frequently, and to do it slowly rather than trying to move too fast.

As for the compacted snow left by plows, use a shovel of narrow width e.g. 8", and straight blade (not curved) to break down the pile a little at a time so the snow comes down onto the paved surface you're working on. Then switch to a larger shovel to scrape it up & toss it wherever.

In the overall scheme of things, a snow thrower is a reasonable use of energy. What is not reasonable is a lawn mower. Lawns are arbitrary and not necessary, and the fuel used to harvest this inedible crop weekly is pure waste. So get rid of the lawn, keep the snow thrower; but if there's not enough fuel for the snow thrower, see above:-).

[frankthetank]

i doubt it! looks like chinese plastic?



link

watch the video...to see the wovel in action.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'i') doubt it! looks like chinese plastic?



link

watch the video...to see the wovel in action.

[Specop_007]

Piss on that!
PROPER snow removal involves a custom built rig using a 454 pumping out 412 horsepower.
Even has heated handles.

RAWR!

[gnm]

Don't worry the oppressive amounts of coal dust will coat the snow and assist in rapid melting...

-G

[Andrew_S]

The secret of shovelling snow is to shove it, not lift it.



Powered with elbow grease.

[artiko]

@Andrew_S's hint is very relevant

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')iss on that!
PROPER snow removal involves a custom built rig using a 454 pumping out 412 horsepower.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')iss on that!
PROPER snow removal involves a custom built rig using a 454 pumping out 412 horsepower.

[pup55]

Actually I was in China a few years ago, and at that time, they had not yet reached the US paradigm on the issue of snow removal. They pretty much just let it lay wherever, and deal with the consequences as best they can.

In town, there is an army of little old ladies who are each assigned a stretch of sidewalk, and keep it clean with whatever tools are available, the most common is the little grass broom.

Out in the country, on the super highway, they pretty much just leave it, figuring that it will be worn down by the traffic, eventually. Apparently complaints to the government on this issue are discouraged, as you can imagine, you run the risk of being reassigned to snow removal duty yourself if you whine too much.

Maybe it's better now. Someone who has been over there more recently will have to tell us.

[Denny]

I noticed in shovelling my drive today, that my neighbor using a snow thrower finished his in about 25 minutes, vs. 40 for me, though we started at the same time. But, my neighbor also had to do some shoveling and it took some time to fill the snow blower with gas.

We had a moderate snowfall to clear, but I bet if multiplied by 16 that would be about the amount of time spend over the season clearing snow. So, maybe four hours of saved time. But, the snow blower will take some maintenance, and maybe one trip for gas and maybe a repair part every second year.

I can't see why anybody would buy a snow blower for that little saving. I guess I'd feel differently, if clearing snow was twice a week thing all winter, and if we got heavier snow falls..

Do any of you with snow blowers compare the cost and the net benefits from past experience?

[TWilliam]

I don't have a snowblower, as I presently live in an area that rarely sees any snowfall, and accumulation is even rarer.

That said, I'd say it very much depends on what your annual snowfall is like as to whether or not it's worth the expense. If you live someplace that sees multiple heavy snows in a season that require a large amount of shoveling, then if nothing else a snowblower is a great back saver.

If, however, you live in an area that might only see say two or three substantial snowfalls in a season, then it's probably cheaper to hire someone with a pickup truck and plow to do a 1-time clearing (assuming there's someone around who has one).

[MarkJames]

I live in the Adirondack region of Upstate New York. Most people with large driveways, large parking areas or long driveways use a plow truck, quad with plow and/or a snowblower unless they've got a strong back and lots of time. Sometimes we plow and snowblow a few times per day. Of course the county plow trucks often leave you a nice high scraper bank at the end of your driveway as soon as you're finished. As the scraper banks increase in size over the season, it gets harder to shovel snow as well.

Not many people shovel these days. Years ago kids would be knocking on you door after it snowed looking to make some money shoveling.

[waldo]

I have a 300 foot driveway and absolutely love my self-propelled snowblower. That's a full day job without it that I can do with the snowblower with relative ease in an hour.

This is something I've spent some time thinking about: energy depletion will include human energy depletion, as caloric input will be limited as well. I feel having such small engine devices (perhaps we won't need to remove snow) as, of course, chainsaws, but also a small tractor for some activities requiring some "muscle" and a rototiller (for breaking new ground; I've read that constant use disrupts the soil and believe it) are going to be necessary to alleviate my personal human energy requirement. They don't use very much fuel and are easy to maintain. Small engine mechanics are going to be in big demand in the future I think.

[nocar]

The need for a snow blower goes together with a suburban lifestyle and a house reached by a car. If all you need is footpath to the street (communal, done by your city) leading to your bus- or train stop, you quite likely do not need a snow-blower.

Or you might prefer to do some cross country skiing - the way to move on top of snow!

nocar

[gg3]

.
Sorry, Nocar, doesn't work, even minus cars and suburbs. Older folks and people with disabilities can't ski, and you need a smooth clear surface for a wheelchair. Bicycles will work in snow but ice underneath is a killer-diller. In any city or town, even if you convert entirely to horse-drawn sleighs as buses, you still need clear sidewalks. And let's not forget about ambulances and fire engines, which still need clear roads to operate.

Shoveling snow is a major cause of fatal heart attacks in the winter. Even for people who are in good shape.

There are electric snow blowers, cost is about $250 for a decent one that'll clear up to 8 - 12" accumulations. You also need a long power cable to get to an indoor outlet, typically in the garage (use a heavy contractor-grade extension cord, 100' length, and if need be you can connect multiple lengths by wrapping the plugs/sockets with waterproof electrical tape backed up by a decent layer of duct tape).

They don't have power to the wheels, but all you have to do is push, which isn't so bad. Keep the long cord wrapped on a cord reel or a hose reel, and reel it out as needed.

IMHO a snow blower is an acceptable use of energy because the motor is doing work that's potentially hazardous to do manually, and clearing walkways and driveways is a necessity (as per the first paragraph).

The thing to get rid of is the powered lawn mower, which can be replaced by a push model easily.

---

In a purely horse-based road transportation system, there are horse-drawn plows and horse-drawn rotary brooms. Usually these have to be used every 6 to 12 inches of accumulation, which means a need for a constant supply of horses to stay on-duty continually during a long or heavy snow. In a serious blizzard it would be acceptable to wait until it's over and then roll the heavy equipment, a rotary plow run on biodiesel, used specifically for times when the snow is beyond the capacity of horse-drawn equipment.

---

The way to get population down to a sustainable level isn't to let people die when ambulances or fire engines can't get through the snow, or drop dead from snow shoveling. The way to get population down, is to ration babies.

[FoolYap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I') can't see why anybody would buy a snow blower for that little saving. I guess I'd feel differently, if clearing snow was twice a week thing all winter, and if we got heavier snow falls..

Do any of you with snow blowers compare the cost and the net benefits from past experience?