[holmes]

bobcuz u nailed it. A childrens story. ugghh. the titanic.

[PrairieMule]

Hello SF3006,

Welcome to peakoil.com! I case you have not figured this out yet you have not stumbled on a Bill O'Reilly or NEO-CON blog.

Peakoil.com attracts a wide variety of VERY intellegent people from all colors of the political spectrum. I myself tend to be on the conservative side and I do not agree with some of the posts. I have however learned quite a bit from folks with a different perspective. I have discovered that even a liberal, Bush hating, dancing in the rain, vegitarian, anti-gun wiccan "Beardo-The Weirdo" hippy can teach you a few tips on cutting your electric bill, alternative energy, recycling and self sufficiency.

As conservative and friendly voice to you and all peak oilers, let me offer some advice. This is not a church where you can preach to the choir and expect a 'Amen" from the entire congregation. Before you kick over the Hornet's nest again be ready to back up you post with intelligent debate. Intelligent Persuasion carries more respect than folks that think alike.

I will give you a AMEN on the UN part....

[seahorse2]

Prairiemule,

I hope everyone here "hears" what you are saying. No matter what opinion any of us have, we always need to make sure that our opinions are supported by facts (often times had to determine) and that those opinions are not just emotional reactions. SpecOp has had to deal with this often, and he's still here posting, and I'm glad.

I also agree you and SF3006 that as a body, for whatever reason, the UN has been fairly ineffective in getting anything done. The only good it seems to do is provide a forum for discourse. Hopefully, that helps, we may never know.


I hope that SF3006 does not take any personal offense at the responses made to his link. In its essence, the linked story appeals to the best in people, which is the willingness of us all to reach out and help neighbors. In the end, it is the will of the individual to do right which solves problems, not nations. As we can see with New Orleans, or with any problem, it is the individual(s( solve problems, not governments. Problems are ultimately caused by individuals, and thus can only be solved by individuals being willing to do what is right.

[SurvivalAcres]

What a lopside piece of trash. I hate it when people do that.

Let's retell the story as it REALLY IS.

Subject: Don't close your eyes to the truth

The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war...My husband looked at our son and then looked at me. ("How do I tell him the truth? He's only nine!". Well, go ahead dear, better he learn it now then later")

My husband and I were in the Army during the Gulf War. Unfortunately, we are among the tens of thousands of Gulf War vets who are now sick and diseased with some uncurable malady from our time in Iraq. The US government refuses to acknowledge our illness and will not honor our medical claims. Many of us are dead, my wife and I, though sick, are still alive. We are very fortunate that our son wasn't born deformed, like so many children of Gulf War veterans are.

I doubt very much we'd be gullible enough again to volunteer for duty in the war on Iraq. Once was enough and look where that got us.

My husband thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window.

He said "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied. "Oh, there's a man over there waving a flag."

"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of American and you are President Bush."

Our son giggled and said "OK. I think it might be President Bush waving the flag. It sure looks like him."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country" my husband said.

"OK Dad, I'm pretending. What about all the men with guns over there?"

"Ignore them son, they aren't important. Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you see Saddam come out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. Saddam looks towards our house and he sees Donald Rumsfield. Donald say's, 'Go ahead and invade Saddam, we won't interfere'. Saddam smiles and goes on hitting his wife. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Rumsfield say's "kick her harder. Here, let us send you some weapons of mass destruction, that'll work even better". You see all of this, son....what do you do?"

"Dad?"

"What do you do son?"

"I'd call the police, Dad. But it looks like the men with guns over there ARE the police. In fact, they're wearing American military uniforms and that man who looks like President Bush is still waving the flag. Wait... those men with guns, they're shooting at the other people without guns... they're waving a white flag and they're still being shot! Oh no, the men in American uniforms are shooting at the children too!"

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations. They take your call. They listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help.

What do you do then son?"

"Dad.......... how can I pretend that they are the police? They look like Americans to me and they're torturing people! Dad, is that right? Aren't they supposed to be over their helping people? But everyone is being shot, look Dad, there's over 100,000 dead people over there now! This is terrible Dad. There are PILES OF BODIES there now. What do we do?"

"I don't know son. Stop complaining. If you complain, you might get arrested by George Bush. Or worse if you're a journalist, he might try to kill you. Be careful son."

"But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.

"I know he did... and we helped him do it. We gave him an awful lot of weapons before we invaded his country. But I want you to stay out of it son, don't go over there, you here? Or you'll wind up like me and your mom, sick and neglected by our own government. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."

"Daddy...he kills them? Like the American soldiers are doing over there? Killing children?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask our government to stop sending troops to Iraq. It doesn't seem like they are doing a very good job over there, too many innocent civilians are dying. I can also see soldiers putting bombs in the back of people's cars and trucks. Then when the people drive into town, they blow up and kill even more people. Dad, are they supposed to be doing that? Are they trying to prolong the war?"

"Shut up son and don't pay attention to that. Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him," my husband says.

"But Dad, I don't think I blame him. It's a mess over there right now. Our soliders are shooting EVERYBODY, even the reporters are being shot and blown up. There are an awful lot of dead people over there now. And when the soldiers come home, they are sick like you and mommy. I heard one of them say it was because of 'depleted uranium' or something like that, he's very sick, but he said he can't get any help from the government. Is he going to die Dad?"

"I don't know son, but you need to pay attention here, so shut up and listen if you know what's good for you. Got that son? If you're not with us, you're against us, you hear? Son, WHAT DO YOU DO SON?" Our son starts to cry.

"I don't know Dad. I don't want you mad at me, but it's all so confusing. There's all these bombs falling now, they're everywhere, it's all shock and awe to me and I don't understand why this is happening. I can see this burning stuff falling from the sky and people are screaming. There's woman and children in terrible pain over there. This stuff burns them to the bone and they are all dying horrible deaths. Dad, I don't want to watch anymore."

"OK, but you have to watch. Pay attention to those trying to get away. Notice nobody is helping them?"

"Yes Dad. I see it. People are trying to swim the river and our soliders are shooting them in the water. People are drowning now Dad. I see woman and children being shot in the water too".

"Son, you need to pay attention to only what I tell you. Pretend you're an imbeded reporter and you can only see, hear and report what I tell you to report, okay?"

"Okay Dad, I'll try".

"Okay, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"

"What Daddy?"

"He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"

"Daddy... I know this can't be true, cause our soldiers are over there and what you said he did, I saw the soldiers do. They ransacked the palaces all over the country, they even broke into the banks and stoled all the money. I can even see them shooting wounded people now Dad."

"Shut up son and pay attention. I warned you about not paying attention. WHAT DO YOU DO?" Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, "I'd close the blinds, Daddy."

My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him. "Why?"

"Because Daddy.....the soldiers are doing terrible things, things that are hard to believe and even harder to watch. It's all horrible. I know Dad that this is war, but this... this is absolutely horrible. They are torturing people now Dad, I can see the bodies. They are using cattle prods on the people. There are thousands of Dad, thousands. I don't understand how they can be so cruel. They got Saddam, they found him in a hole and he's in jail now Dad. But they're still killing people, lots and lots of people and they're still torturing people Dad."

I start to cry. My son is right, we've done some really horrible things over there, I am ashamed, but it is too late. My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his Dad and he hangs his head with shame too.

"Son".

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man waving the flag.... he's at your front door... "WHAT DO YOU DO?"

"George Bush is at my door Dad? Holy shit Dad, what do I do? This man is a murderer!"

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without hesitation he says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!! AND I'M GOING TO STOP ALL THE LIES AND DECEPTIONS AND DECEIT GOING ON ABOUT THIS WAR!!!!"

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs our son to his chest and hugs him tight, and says... "It's too late to fight him, he's too strong and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you should have stopped him BEFORE he invaded Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of people, and his children and the old lady across the way. You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before its too late." my husband whispers.

THAT scenario I just gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let evil happen son, THAT is the greatest atrocities in the world won't affect him. "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! DON'T BE AFRAID TO SPEAK THE TRUTH. SUPPORT AMERICA SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS OR PARTICIPATE IN ANOTHER WAR LIKE THIS..."

This should be printed in every newspaper and posted in every school in America. Of course that won't happen so we'll use the Internet.

If your blinds are closed do nothing with this email. If they are open I do not need to tell you what to do.

[smallpoxgirl]

Seems like this discussion begs mention of how they got their house. The Indians that use to live in their lot. How they were slaughtered and their houses burned. The Africans that were enslaved to build the new house. All the dead bodies burried in the back yard. The folks living in the shanty on the driveway.

[Gorm]

Well now, isnt that a little over the top the other way?

And about the slaves, wasnt it more like they sweated in parts of the garden more than build the house?

[Hawkcreek]

--

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'T')hose lessons are already learned and it isn't fair to assign blame on todays generation for that crap.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'T')he crimes of today stand alone. The only thing they have in common with the crimes of yesterday is the common cause -- greed. The desire of a few to control the lives and treasure of the many.

[erl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SurvivalAcres', 'W')hat a lopside piece of trash. I hate it when people do that.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[SurvivalAcres]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('erl', 'A')nd your story is different, how?

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse', 'W')hy didn't America do anything to stop the genocide in Rwanda and instead let over a million people get hacked to-death with machetes? Why didn't we do anything in Rwanda to help all the kids being hacked to death but we did invade Iraq? Hmmmm, maybe its because, unlike Iraq, Rwanda doesn't have any oil. Maybe its bc Rwandans are black. Maybe both reasons. Maybe that's the same reason we did nothing to stop the genocide in Liberia or any number of other countries suffering genocide.

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he United Nations is really nothing more than the collective will of the member states. So, when we say the UN failed to act what we are really saying is that the member states, and in particular the Security Council, failed to act. The U.S. is the most powerful force behind the U.N.’s power, so Seahorse was right to ask where was the U.S. in Rwanda