[PrairieMule]

Have to go with the majority on this one. That article sucked. First of all the website, has an agenda. If I quoted you something Rush Limbaugh said my guess is you would not accept it as the gospel. Same goes with Counterpunch.com. As PJ O'Rourke points out if you want to expand your church pews-don't turn your back and preach to choir.

Secondly, the author no facts just his feelings and impressions of the administration. Just rambles on in a emotional fit with extravagant metaphors that remind me of my wife when she gets hormonal. Like most women who want validation of their feelings they go straight to their girlfriends or folks who think like they do instead because it's far easier to "Preach to the choir" and get that validation than it is to pursuade.

Seahorse on the other hand, actually presented his case in a logical and intelligent way. I think he is wrong, but he makes a better argument than the tripe that was displayed in that rag.

[seahorse]

Thanks Killjoy for the link. I was an Army officer in a prior life, and Van Creveld is on the military reading list. His book "The Transformation of War" is regarded by many as the greatest military writing since Clauswitz. No one would be more qualified than Van Crevel to say the Iraq was foolish and that the war is unwinnable.

The article by Ingmar Lee being debated here may be emotional, but we Americans need to try to understand the emotion being expressed if we are to regain our footing. It has been said that to be able to speak the truth, one must first learn to hear it. Many Americans are still not ready to hear the truth, and until they are, they will not be able to speak it.

[killJOY]

Government Liars! Hang them!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')orty years before the United States invaded Iraq believing Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, it widened a war in Vietnam apparently convinced the enemy had launched an unprovoked attack on two U.S. Navy destroyers.

Papers declassified by the National Security Agency point to a series of bungled intelligence findings on the purported clash in the Gulf of Tonkin that led Congress to endorse President Johnson's escalation of the Vietnam conflict in August 1964.

Among the documents released Thursday is an article written by NSA historian Robert J. Hanyok for the agency's classified publication, Cryptologic Quarterly. In it, he declares that his review of the complete intelligence shows beyond doubt "no attack happened that night."

[peaker_2005]

On the Ingmar Lee article:

First off, this is clearly an opinion piece, though he has clearly stepped over the line with the insults. Second, at least he recognises the oil situation. And that's more than I can say for most of the world's politicians...

[Revi]

Ingmar Lee is right. It is all going down. What he forgets is that if the US is the pilothouse, then India is steerage. They are going down too. It is the death throes of a dinosaur, but then all industrialized economies are dinosaurs. The writer fails to notice that he is exactly like the thousands of people killed in Iraq, the world trade center and other places where the innocents and the pawns in the game are sacrificed. This is nothing new. It's the same game England played before they lost their empire. It's the same game the Moguls probably played in India. It may be the same game the BRIC plays in the middle of the 21st century.

The great game is only great if you aren't a pawn.

[Revi]

Pondicherry is right. It is all going down. What he forgets is that if the US is the pilothouse, then India is steerage. They are going down too. It is the death throes of a dinosaur, but then all industrialized economies are dinosaurs. The writer fails to notice that he is exactly like the thousands of people killed in Iraq, the world trade center and other places where the innocents and the pawns in the game are sacrificed. This is nothing new. It's the same game England played before they lost their empire. It's the same game the Moguls probably played in India. It may be the same game the BRIC plays in the middle of the 21st century.

The great game is only great if you aren't a pawn.

[NTBKtrader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
') The great game is only great if you aren't a pawn.

[killJOY]

The Ship Is NOT Sinking.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.') The History News Network at George Mason University has just polled historians informally on the Bush record. Four hundred and fifteen, about a third of those contacted, answered -- maybe they were all crazed liberals -- making the project as unofficial as it was interesting. These were the results: 338 said they believed Bush was failing, while 77 said he was succeeding. Fifty said they thought he was the worst president ever. Worse than Buchanan.

[MicroHydro]

On the original Counterpunch article by Lee. The man is an idiot. He has bought into the conspiracy theory that 19 Arab guys with boxcutters who couldn't rent Cessnas outwitted NORAD for an hour and a half and caused three steel framed buildings to collapse on their footprints at free fall speed.

The neocons are not fools and they are not done by any means. The chaos in Iraq is not failure, it is success. The US/Britain/Israel wanted civil war in Iraq and engineered the car bombings to create it. Now that Iraq is a failed state, it can be looted at will with muscle supplied by mercenaries and airpower from the four giant US bases being built in the desert.

Look for more chaos/success in Syria, Iran, and eventually Saudi Arabia itself. If the US gains military control of 2/3rds of the oil on the planet, the US national debt will not matter.

[chris-h]

funny article.
Iraq was a military sucess but a massive ecomic and diplomatic failure.

[Parannoyed]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NTBKtrader', 'S')eahorse: it's called humor. relaxxx

[Revi]

Joke's on you pal. We go down so do you. Know how to cook rice and beans?

[Parannoyed]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'J')oke's on you pal. We go down so do you. Know how to cook rice and beans?

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Parannoyed', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'J')oke's on you pal. We go down so do you. Know how to cook rice and beans?

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'O')n the original Counterpunch article by Lee. The man is an idiot. He has bought into the conspiracy theory that 19 Arab guys with boxcutters who couldn't rent Cessnas outwitted NORAD for an hour and a half and caused three steel framed buildings to collapse on their footprints at free fall speed.

The neocons are not fools and they are not done by any means. The chaos in Iraq is not failure, it is success. The US/Britain/Israel wanted civil war in Iraq and engineered the car bombings to create it. Now that Iraq is a failed state, it can be looted at will with muscle supplied by mercenaries and airpower from the four giant US bases being built in the desert.

Look for more chaos/success in Syria, Iran, and eventually Saudi Arabia itself. If the US gains military control of 2/3rds of the oil on the planet, the US national debt will not matter.

[threadbear]

Microhydro is correct. And she has done the wise thing, after reaching her conclusions, to leave the country.

Parranoyd's assessment is also appreciated and precisely echoes the Canadian attitude. We like enlightened Americans and despise the rest. Unfortunately, Parranoyd, our proximity is a worry.

Alby, It's better to have attitude than altitude. At least a mind that's at see-level, can change. Talking down to someone from Olympian heights, conveys an impression, but not the one you might like--mind deprived of oxygen, rigidity of thought.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Parannoyed', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'J')oke's on you pal. We go down so do you. Know how to cook rice and beans?

[killJOY]

America, he dead.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."

[Parannoyed]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', ' ')once the US has been cut down by peak oil, you'll probably die in a food riot or maybe if we are lucky, as a 'pegboy' for some indonesian pirates.

HAVE A NICE DAY

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Parannoyed', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', ' ')once the US has been cut down by peak oil, you'll probably die in a food riot or maybe if we are lucky, as a 'pegboy' for some indonesian pirates.

HAVE A NICE DAY