[SinisterBlueCat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'B')ut seriously, I think the issue you raised about what does Kincaid's popularity say about American Tastes is a good one.

Snip

In addition to the craft side of things undergoing a decline, the whole aesthetic question was exploded by the confusion of modernism. It became strange and abstruse - for elite tastes. Of course Picasso was extremely famous and the masses flocked to his big exhibitions, but mainstream art was following Marcel Duchamp, not Picasso.

[dbarberic]

Socioeconomics and its impact on class structure is something that has fascinated me for a while. I have numerous books on the topic, including Paul Fussell’s “Class : A Guide through the American Status System”, Alfred Lubrano’s “Limbo: Blue-Collar Roots, White-Collar Dreams”, and watched several times the PBS Documentary “People Like Us”.

Class is indeed alive and present in America, however, Americans in general tend not to want to discuss it or think about it. America has a great historical belief in a dream that class does not matter, does not exist, and that anyone with enough ambition and desire can rise up the ladder. Accepting that America does have a class structure is difficult for them to accept since it is so against the “American Dream”.

Class is more than just income, it is an all encompassing culture that one grows up in, lives in, and becomes part of their personal belief and value system. It is learned behavior and view of the exterior world.

For example, one can be “new money” wealthy and yet not be accepted by the “old money” wealth that settled along the upper East Coast (i.e. traditional WASPs). It is more than the amount of money in the bank, it is the way one presents themselves to the world and interacts with it. Old Money is self assured and non-flashy. They value handed down valuable antiques, while new money always has to have the newest/expensive thing without any ancestry/historical relevance. Old Money values personal relationships and prides itself on the network of social friends. They cluster themselves together in communities and often dine and “summer” (vacation for those who don’t know) with other families. Their daughters often date only within the same social circle.

I could go on and on, but whole books are written just discussing compairisons.

When one is raised in a certain socioeconomic class, they tend to exhibit those behaviors throughout their whole life irregardless of the increase or decrease in income one has. Because this behavior is ingrained in them, it is comfortable and familiar, so they always revert back to it. This is why Old Money doesn’t accept New Money, white collar professionals exhibit different social behaviors than assembly line workers, etc. Once you identify those behaviors, it is easy to identify the socioeconomic class of just about anyone.

If you are equally fascinated by this topic, I suggest you check out this website:
http://www.pbs.org/peoplelikeus/

See if the documentary “People Like Us” is going to be re-aired in your area. If not, download the transcript and read it. Also play some of the games.

[PenultimateManStanding]

I'm not trained in any way in Sociology, but wouldn't a class system have to be overt, and clearly defined within a society structured explicitly along class lines? American groups such as 'old-money' on the east coast would just be cliques, not classes, from this point of view. The old-money families aren't in charge of everything are they, and keeping the 'lower' classes out?

[The_Virginian]

Just look at who gets to be presidents...

Not usualy those of common blood.

Let alone anyone with "one drop" like Powell, despite all the blue in his viens.

[PrairieMule]

Like my esteemed peak oiler who posted earlier, I also know little on Sociology. I do however look at credit reports at a mortgage company all day and see New rich wannabes and Old rich hanging on to vanities. If they cannot obtain either New or mantain Old rich status it is financed, and financed to the hilt. As we say in Texas-Big Hat and no Cattle

I believe the next generation of New wealthy will be the farmers and ranchers who live simple and stay out of debt. I do not think Peak oil is going to take us to the stone age but it will totally change the way we logisticlly get our food. Plan accordingly.

Myself I trully don't give Sh*t what the Jaguar owner thinks of me. I wear a Small hat and have 1 Brangus calf. 3-5 yrs I hope to have 20 cattle.