[Dukat_Reloaded]

I have come to the conclusion that it is important to consume energy, and the more you consume the better off you will be. It doesn't matter if it's oil, methane, gas, solar, wind, nuclear is besides the point. We have still pretty much unlimited energy to fall back on if oil runs out, and that topic is hotly debated, but I believe there is still plenty of oil. Now if someone is going to conserve energy, they are putting themselves at a great disadvantage. The human mind has evolved so much that we are now limited by our bodies in what we can do, so we invented machines to add to our body such as cranes, trucks & manufactoring devices all controlled by the human brain. Now the more energy you consume, the more mechanical power you have at your fingertips for your brain to control and create a better life for you. So for someone to conserve their energy, they are going to be at a disadvantage to someone who uses as much energy as they can as they will have more mechanical power to beat you in everything they do. That is why the rich use so much energy, the more energy you consume, the more power you have and the more resources you control. I have never heard of anyone becoming rich conserving energy. It is against human nature, and we all need to consume more power to better ourselves. When bush said that the USA needs policies to encourge more energy consumption, he was absolutly right. The more energy people consume the more productive they will be, they will find more energy, they will become stronger and smarter, they will become richer and they will have a better life. So I think everyone should be using more power to benifit themselves than conserve energy, they will put themselves at a disadvantage to the rest of the world and their fellow man who are trying to conume more energy so they become more powerful. So the idea behind conserving energy is flawed, we all must use more energy to progress mankind. If we decide to go backwards and conserve we will doom ourselves. Bush I used to think was an idiot, but I now understand that he is 100% right, we need policies to increase energy consumption. Oil might run out one day, but we have tons of other energy we can use. Don't waste your life getting ready for peakoil, start using more energy to progress yourselves and the human race. I used to believe in peakoil, but I don't anymore. The premise that we need to conserve is flawed, we need to consume more energy, and there is plently of energy in various forms in the earth that there is no need to worry. If we ever do run out, I'm sure science will have already progressed to extract energy from the sun, we are already halfway their with solar panels, but we need to put them in space, not have them on land where they take up space. I mean no disrespect to people with different beliefs, but after comming out of believing in peakoil, my whole entire attiude has changed and I think the world is entering into a wonderful new era with even more energy than what we ever had before.

[grabby]

It is too expensive and burns too much oil putting panels into space.

[Dukat_Reloaded]

Still just talking just about oil, you must be really addicted to it.

There is alot more energy out their than just oil, open your mind a fraction. Gezzz.

[Antimatter]

Cool I always wanted one of these!

[Dukat_Reloaded]

My point is the person in the larger car is more powerful than the person in the smaller car because he/she consumes more energy. The person in the small car is a weaker person and poor. From my experience, the person who drives the larger cars are bigger, have more muscle, more sucessful than the people who drive small efficent cars. Generally the people who drive small fuel efficent cars are the ones that can barely get by in this world.

[orz]

I think Dukat's beliefs are naive. We WILL need to back down consumption loads for transition to suceed. However, your statement:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he energy to put panels into space will burn more oil than running those panels for 20 years will produce.

If you are a company doing that, remind me not to invest in it, thanks.
If it was profitable it would already ahve been done.

there is no other energy than oil for mass consumer use.

Drive up to my house with another form of car and show me,
hydrogen dont count, it is produced from methane comercially.

if there are tons of alternate energies, name just one.

thanks, maybe I can switch my car over to it.
P.S. Do you know how many barrels of oil we are going to burn just MAKING this alternate energy lifestyle? It is extimated if we use up all our resources to amke a mass produced energy that is unrelated to oil, it will be less efficient, and we used up all our oil making it.

No win scenario.

[coyote]

wow.

[venky]

You are joking, right? Rejecting doomerism is one thing, but from peaknik to ardent cornucopian?

wow

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukat', 'M')y point is the person in the larger car is more powerful than the person in the smaller car because he/she consumes more energy. The person in the small car is a weaker person and poor. From my experience, the person who drives the larger cars are bigger, have more muscle, more sucessful than the people who drive small efficent cars. Generally the people who drive small fuel efficent cars are the ones that can barely get by in this world.

[grabby]

There are many other forms of energy out there, but no good liquid energy solutions yeat.

[sol]

dukat,

Silly

[grabby]

1. How many windmills does it take to generate
20,000 kilowatt hours, (500 gallons of gasoline) how long do they have to run, and what is their cost?

2. How many solar panels are required, their cost, and how long would they have to generate electricity to generate 20,000 kilowatt hours?

3. How many hours would you need to generate 20,000 kilowatt hours of hydrogen fuel from electricity, how many kilowatts of electricity would be needed and what would it cost you in todays electric market?

4. How many cords of wood equal 20,000 kilowatt hours of electricity?


here are some figures to help you understand how our society uses energy.

It takes a Boeing 747 500 gallons of gas to taxi from loading ramp to the airport takeoff runway (This is not taking off, it is taxiing TO the TAKEOFF point.

In 1800 energy this is equivalent to:

6,600 pounds of coal.
Running a gas powered barbecue one hour a day for 7 years.
Running a gas kitchen stove 2hours a day for 17 years.
6,800 loads of laundry in a gas powered dryer. - that is one load a day for 18 years.

that is 20,000 kilowatts of power or
20 megawatts for an hour.

A huge 2 million dollar windmill makes 1 megawat.
Running at 40 percent efficiency (wind effect and calm days)
that would be 50 windmills for one hour. or 10 windmills for a day and a half.

If a windmill runs for a year then needs fixing, it would cost you 1-2 million dollars to taxi 36.5 boing 747's down the runway.
or about 27,000 dollars for the equivalent energy you can buy for 1000 dollars at the pump.

To fly a jet across the country you will need many windmill farms
continued conspicuous consumption, for every jet to produce enough fuel. We have 4000 jets in the air at oany one time in the USA alone.

500 gallons will take one car across the usa oand back, but when 200 people fly it is cost effective. It still uses fuel though.

[azreal60]

Give him a chance. Maybe he was writing satire. Or being sarcastic. I hope so anyway.

It's kind of bad when what you write stuns people so much that they don't even want to make fun of you cause they feel bad, it's like abusing children.

[grabby]

Oh, I forgot the solar panels. I bought 4 panels at noon they put out about 10 amps at 13 volts. that is about 150 watts (give you the benefit of the doubt there. it cost me 1500 dollars or about 10 dollars a watt.

to make 20,000, kilowatt in sun energy you need 200,000 kilodollars. or a sun farm of 200 million dollars running for one hour. that is for the taxi to the runway.

We have 4000 of those planes taxiing EVERY HOUR We need 4000 x 200million sunfarms just to taxi the AIRPLANES we are running now. 800 billion to taxi airplanes. what about the cars? they take way more fuel than planes..

[grabby]

Look, it is easy.

Less power isn't so bad, it will be fun.

We can't afford the power, you would have to hitch ol NELLY up to the circle wheel generator (1 hp) and have the boy keep her walking to power your computer (740 watts), if everyone had a nellie horse and all got on line at the same time the internet could run for an hour each evening.
that would be like the good ol days on the party line.

[grabby]

We absolutely have no clue how much power we waste and consume at this time. Conservation won't touch the problem, alternate energy won't fix it. It will need to be a complete lifestyle change, it is called going green, like the days of our grandfathers.

Kind of romantic, I'd say.

Who would have guessed? We think in the next generation we will be in space and traveling with wookies and such. Dude, we won't even have space travel. One saturn five burn runs a city of cars for 24 hours.

All other forms of energy so far take too much oil to keep running, highways, cars, shipping, manufacture, all takes lots of power.

I would say the best jobs that are looking up will be health care, blacksmithing, welding, farming, and livery.

[Antimatter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e cannot build 4000 windmill farms.

[grabby]

A man living off an inheritance will have to alter his way of life considerably after finding that when the account runs dry, he suddenly finds he has to earn any money he wants to spend.

[grabby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Antimatter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e cannot build 4000 windmill farms.