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Full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...

Unread postby Leanan » Wed 09 Nov 2005, 11:41:47

Yesterday was Election Day. An off-year election, so not of much interest to most people. But there were some referendums that were interesting.

In Washington state, people voted to keep a new gas tax in order to fund transportation projects. They rejected a new Seattle monorail, though - apparently because it wasn't as big as they wanted.

Voters in New York approved a transportation bond act that allows the state to borrow 3 billion dollars for transportation projects. It will be evenly split between public transportation in NYC and highway projects in the rest of the state.

It seems that even in the current anti-tax climate, we are willing to pay higher taxes for transportation improvements. And despite drowning in a sea of red ink, we're willing to go into deeper debt for transportation projects as well.

In California, voters rejected Proposition 80, which would have re-regulated the energy industry. Likely because it was just too complex. People didn't understand it, and when they don't understand something, they vote No.
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Re: Full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 09 Nov 2005, 12:03:16

In brighter news, people voted 54% yes on Proposition 1 in Texas, which creates a state fund for rail relocation projects in urban areas, moving heavy and hazardous freight out on new rural lines while freeing up urban lines for commuter rail. :-D
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin
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Re: Full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...

Unread postby DarkDawg » Wed 09 Nov 2005, 13:20:20

As a New Yorker, I was one of the 44% voting against the Transporation Bond simply because we are already $48B in debt and more debt is just stupid.

I think it passed because it was labelled as "good" debt because it will help with the subway infrastructure, railways, etc.. Ok, I understand that. As for roads, I would have preferred that more be spent on alternative energy rather than on fixing roads and bridges. Our grandchildren won't care if there are good roads if there are no (affordable) cars to drive, yet they will be the ones paying for this debt :-(
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Re: Full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...

Unread postby Leanan » Wed 09 Nov 2005, 13:35:32

I don't like the transportation bond act, either. IMO, the only "good debt" is one that helps us move toward sustainability.

The transportation bond act is "good debt" if you think it will pay for itself by growing the economy. But once you understand peak oil, that's a hollow argument indeed. We are not going to grow our way out of this debt - not without cheap oil. Inflate away our debt, maybe, but not grow it away.

I'd prefer that transportation projects be funded by tax increases. It should be "pay as you go," or people will never understand the true costs.
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Re: Full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...

Unread postby AmericanEmpire » Wed 09 Nov 2005, 13:38:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ur grandchildren won't care if there are good roads if there are no (affordable) cars to drive, yet they will be the ones paying for this debt.


Yep, its sad the problems we have put off on our children and grandchildren. As a society we decided that we can party today at the expense of the future.

I mean who gives a damn if you won't be around to see it. (Of course they are gonna be shocked when peak oil and its problems hit soon and they have to deal with it cause that future is now).

Future generations are going to hate us and I don't blame them. I hate to say it but dieoff is exactly what this society deserves. :evil:
Last edited by AmericanEmpire on Wed 09 Nov 2005, 13:41:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...

Unread postby cat » Wed 09 Nov 2005, 15:33:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n Washington state, people voted to keep a new gas tax in order to fund transportation projects. They rejected a new Seattle monorail, though - apparently because it wasn't as big as they wanted.


Actually, Seattle voted for the Monorail several times over, they really wanted it. Unfortunately, the group that was in charge of making it happen was so disorganized, mismanaged and uncompentent that nothing ever happened as said. I think Seattle finally just had enough, (and rightfully so). Hopefully, Seattle can get it together and come up with a mass transit solution and maybe the gas tax will help. But, people are discouraged, and there are so many hands in the pot and when things are not agreed upon they tend not to happen at all. It's really too bad.
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Re: Full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...

Unread postby rogerhb » Wed 09 Nov 2005, 18:01:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cat', 'A')ctually, Seattle voted for the Monorail several times over, they really wanted it.


When I think of monorail and America I think of the Simpons' monorail episode.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Full speed ahead and damn the torpedos...

Unread postby DesertBear2 » Thu 10 Nov 2005, 03:28:50

In Virginia, a Democratic Governor was elected. This is significant in that VA is a generally conservative state and the Republican candidate was using the standard Repug fear and punishment approach but was soundly defeated. And by a Demo who used the faith/values argument in reverse.

It also bodes well for ex-governor Mark Warner as a possible Demo Presidential Candidate. Warner, with experience in both the public and business worlds, may be capable not only of progressive policies but also in out-NASCARing the rightwingers....
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