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Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby Jack » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 14:33:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')TW, I think Blackbud is just engaging in a little 'guerilla marketing'. Or he is insane too.


Please accept my compliments for your wisdom and insight. Also, for your diplomacy. I considered a reply to the original post, but concluded it would be grossly inappropriate to post what I wanted to write.
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby MacG » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 14:36:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ashurbanipal', 'A')nyway, these guys sound like nutbags.


Yea, I tought so too at first, but are not 100% sure anymore. They had a presentation at the ACS annual meeting this year (I went over there and checked) and they have a number of publications in peer reviewed scientific journals. I'm not into quantum chemistry enough to form my own opinion, but if they expose themselves in scientific forums, a bluff wont hold more than a year or two.

They claim to have found lower energy states for hydrogen than ordinary H+, thus beeing able to extract more energy than what was put in during electrolysis.

Well, if the claims are correct, we'll be able to REALLY screw this planet!
Last edited by MacG on Mon 31 Oct 2005, 14:43:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby blackbud » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 14:40:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ashurbanipal', 'A')nyway, these guys sound like nutbags.


Yea, I tought so too at first, but are not 100% sure anymore. They had a presentation at the ACS annual meeting this year (I went over there and checked) and they have a number of publications in peer reviewed scientific journals. I'm not into quantum chemistry enough to form my own opinion, but if they expose themselves in scientific forums, a bluff wont hold more than a year or two.



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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby Leanan » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 14:48:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')I'm not into quantum chemistry enough to form my own opinion, but if they expose themselves in scientific forums, a bluff wont hold more than a year or two.


Yup. And the general consensus seems to be that it's quackery, or at least not what's claimed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrino_theory

Sounds to me like it's right up there with abiotic oil, or cold fusion. There may be something there, but it's not likely to be anything earth-shaking.
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby bruin » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 14:51:14

What needs to be pointed out here is that the decline due to PO will be a jigsaw curve as we bump up against the supply limit and then decline down again. Repeat again while the ceiling keeps getting lower.

So now we have bumped against the ceiling and we are now looking good again until we bump again. Each time we'll have to conserve more, spend more, and use more alternatives. This process is not happening overnight.

The problem is everytime we recover from the last bump, there is going to be a bunch of celebrating about how everything is solved and PO is a myth and so on.
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby OilsNotWell » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 15:15:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') disagree somewhat. Obviously, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about, but it would be a proverbial very bad thing if someone just finding out about Peak Oil happened on this thread and thought that the best the peak oil crowd had to offer in response were one liners.


and

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lease accept my compliments for your wisdom and insight. Also, for your diplomacy. I considered a reply to the original post, but concluded it would be grossly inappropriate to post what I wanted to write.


Thought about that too. But...well, the tone of first--time ever posts almost always give it away...it if walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
And look, how obvious (flame-baiting, use of tired attempts to equate PO with Y2K, alien invasion, Yellowstone caldera, etc, impugning the motives of Simmons and others (just like some who attacked LATOC Matt so unfairly)...it was:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')hink it's fair to say that it's time to say nite nite to peak oil.
It can be put ino the same box room as a yellowstone volcanic eruption, a meteor strike, aliens landing and planet X.
All are theoretically possible but very unlikely within the next 100 years.
Planet X has moved ahead of peak oil in the probability stakes and Peak oil stays just ahead of Y2K


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')immons, Heiberg and Kunstler and others now seem and sound like desperate men as they see future book sales waning.

Many wonder whether Simmons is a dupe for people like those on here who with his help have elevated prices to $60 plus with many, many thanks from the Oil industry who have been keeping billions of barrels under their stetsons.

I would hazard a guess that peak oil websites had been enjoying expotentially growing hits but I would assume that this to is waning now.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eak Oil will not ever happen as the conciousness shift that was desired by many here has occured and things have changed. Some will argue that it's a non renewable resource so inevitably will peak, well of course, but nobody will notice or care if that day ever arrives.

I find it interesting there is an 'angle' to the post as well...

Anyone recall how the Walling Heirs thread started and ended? :wink:

Some do not know or recall how JayHMorrison/DriveElectric/JohnDenver and others were so plainly obvious?

Dissenting opinions should not be attacked on their face. Actually, I would be very open minded to reading them if they are well-sourced, backed up with reasoned conclusions, data, etc. In fact, I would like to believe PO is not going to occur anytime soon.

But not this, couched in first time posts that begin like that. Good grief. And the more there are posts on this, the more self-satisfied they become.
They actually smugly smile when if the thread gets heated up.

The WORST thing is if a post like that was COMPLETELY ignored. With no responses. Not a one. Like a turd in the punchbowl. Every just ignored it.

ADD: BobCousins - great post! We undoubtedly have not, nor will we ever reach, Peak Snake-Oil. [copyright 2005 OilsNotWell ;) ]
Last edited by OilsNotWell on Mon 31 Oct 2005, 16:00:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby some_guy282 » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 15:17:27

So what if we do find an alternative to oil for our energy needs? We'd be solving the wrong problem. Peak oil is a symptom of a larger problem. The larger problem is exponential growth.

I suggest you take your own advice and do some more research.
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. – Nietzsche

Time makes more converts than reason. – Thomas Paine

History is a set of lies agreed upon. – Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby MacG » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 16:20:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')I'm not into quantum chemistry enough to form my own opinion, but if they expose themselves in scientific forums, a bluff wont hold more than a year or two.


Yup. And the general consensus seems to be that it's quackery, or at least not what's claimed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrino_theory

Sounds to me like it's right up there with abiotic oil, or cold fusion. There may be something there, but it's not likely to be anything earth-shaking.


OK, thanks, agree. Open and shut case.

Came to think of it, since this is claimed to be a chemical reaction, bulk amounts of hydrogen are involved. What does the residue look like? This extremely low energy state of hydrogen that is? Can it get back to normal hydrogen trough some simple endothermal reaction or something?

Ah, nice try I must say anyhow!
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby ashurbanipal » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 17:15:17

It certainly has it's skeptics but that is because it is saying that classical physics is WRONG .

Well, it's not news that classical physics (a la Bruno, Galileo, Newton, et. al.) is incorrect. We've known that since Einstein, and suspected it since Hilbert. If you mean that Relativity is wrong, or that quantum mechanics is wrong, then it's going to take a LOT of work on your part to convince me of that. There is so much evidence for Relativity and for Quantum Mechanics that it's not even funny.

Ultimately, by way of the EPR paradox, we may arrive at a deeper theory than what we have now. That's what the current string and brane theories are attempting to do. But it's very, very, very, very unlikely that we'll settle on something that contradicts these theories.
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby Raxozanne » Mon 31 Oct 2005, 17:17:49

I distinctly remember someone posting this stuff a few months ago.

Time for another regurgitation?

[smilie=icon_puke_r.gif]
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby untothislast » Tue 01 Nov 2005, 07:25:08

We're all focusing on the energy aspects of this, and forgetting that we need real, physical oil, to make, mould and manufacture things. How are we proposing to replace, or even live without, plastics and other oil derivatives, when the resource is integrated into everything we use ?
You can maybe produce energy - but you can't fabricate matter.
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Re: Let's put peak oil to bed shall we

Unread postby BabyPeanut » Tue 01 Nov 2005, 09:25:44

The "current events" forums is about news not this.
*moved* to Open Discussion
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