[thuja]

Just headed the topic to get your attention. But I'm wondering how many of us out there are secretly excited for peak oil.

Along with the worst possibilities; global depression, starvation, a lack of plastic for our consoles- there is the joy of thinking about less cubicle jobs, mall culture and tearing up the streets to plant kale gardens. I wonder what percentage of peak oilers can't wait to see the S hit the F, even if it means losing that 60 k/year job at Intel and watching tv clips of Houstonians dying in the streets when there's not enough electricity for the air conditioners.

I'm wondering how much of the "oh no...the end is nigh" is really secretly a "%$!# yeah, I hated this earth raping civilization anyways, bring on the craziness!"

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'J')ust headed the topic to get your attention. But I'm wondering how many of us out there are secretly excited for peak oil.

Along with the worst possibilities; global depression, starvation, a lack of plastic for our consoles- there is the joy of thinking about less cubicle jobs, mall culture and tearing up the streets to plant kale gardens. I wonder what percentage of peak oilers can't wait to see the S hit the F, even if it means losing that 60 k/year job at Intel and watching tv clips of Houstonians dying in the streets when there's not enough electricity for the air conditioners.

I'm wondering how much of the "oh no...the end is nigh" is really secretly a "%$!# yeah, I hated this earth raping civilization anyways, bring on the craziness!"

[Byron100]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'J')ust headed the topic to get your attention. But I'm wondering how many of us out there are secretly excited for peak oil.

Along with the worst possibilities; global depression, starvation, a lack of plastic for our consoles- there is the joy of thinking about less cubicle jobs, mall culture and tearing up the streets to plant kale gardens. I wonder what percentage of peak oilers can't wait to see the S hit the F, even if it means losing that 60 k/year job at Intel and watching tv clips of Houstonians dying in the streets when there's not enough electricity for the air conditioners.

I'm wondering how much of the "oh no...the end is nigh" is really secretly a "%$!# yeah, I hated this earth raping civilization anyways, bring on the craziness!"

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', 'B')TW, I have little doubt that Matt Simmons and Ken Deffeyes are not "civilization-haters." But they've both made some of the most "apocalyptic-sh-t-hitting-the-fan" statements you will find.

[threadbear]

What a great idea for a thread! Someone wrote a book about one of the strongest components of man's unceasing appetite for war. He claims it gives life meaning and that is one of the main reasons we keep fighting.

The same can probably be said for peak oil. It's a challenge, it will change everything, it will give the earth a rest, and suffuse our lives with meaning. What could be better for a society where half the people worship at the altar of merchandise and the other half are hardened nihilists who must be desparate for something to fill the void.

I say peak oil is just what we need and I embrace it whole heartedly, with a certain amount of excitement, even if I have my doubts that it's an immediate danger.

[Windmills]

Honestly, I'm excited. I think modern society has perverted humanity. Living in modern systems isn't good for us; it feeds into our lowest natures. I look forward to a more relaxed life, getting to know my neighbors, enjoying real community, and seeing the smog disappear.

Beating back my baser emotions, however, I know I shouldn't crave to see so much suffering that could happen in order to achieve a more stable civilization. The end result might be good for the Earth and humanity. Yet I've long believed that the means are the end, so I can't justify such desire within my own morality.

My girlfriend and I were up-and-coming professionals looking forward to having a piece of the pie. Neither of us were furiously bent on making wads of cash as our soul purpose in life, but we wanted a comfortable, rural middle class living. We've both since abandoned attempting to further our careers and instead focus our energies on those things that might help us survive a worst-case scenario, especially if it comes too soon. I never imagined I might see people that I love suffer and die. I've tried to discuss the issue with them. They accept PeakOil, but other than my girlfriend, no one in our extended circles of friends and families is willing to actually DO something about it.

[thuja]

Yeah- got to admit I have conflicted emotions about it- I see worst case scenarios of fascist military take over with the poor masses forced to work the coal mines to supply synfuels for military escapades in the Middle East.

But then I think of weeding my little plot of potatoes and drinking homebrews with my neaighbor while we trade ideas about how to generate microhydro electricity and toast the bankruptcy of McDonalds/GE/Exxon.

Definitely hard to say I'm rooting foor the collapse but I do see some excellent side benefits.

[Guest]

I doubt that Kunstler is looking forward to it on a PERSONAL level. Those who are looking forward to the likely effects are people who have likely never gone hungry or been poor or without medicine and are thinking it's going to be like some sci-fi movie.

Best,

Matt

[Colorado-Valley]

Having grown up on a small farm that was fairly hardscrabble at times, I can say it won't be easy, but learning how to entertain yourself without the shopping malls is actually quite enjoyable if you develop a child-like wonder for nature and simple things.

I can't imagine going through something like this without a small farm, a root cellar, a big garden, a milk cow, a wood stove, etc., etc.

The suburbs will be a nightmare, no doubt about it.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

I can't wait for the end of days. I plan to become a powerful level 12 necromancer and I will use dead to take over the world.

[Dukat_Reloaded]

lol, auctionmonster, hey I thought you "quit the internet"

I find it quite absurd, the people who are the richest are the people who are the dumbest. They became good in one field only, and have no skills other than that. I met an old couple, they looked wealthy but were both clueless where to put water in their car, they've allways had someone else to do everything for them. Really, it's much like in the wild, a dog with the loudest bark will for a time be the one who can scare the other dogs away from the meat and keep it for themselves, but when something changes, the dog which was only good at barking has to do something else to get meat like hunting will die as it never developed the skills to surive on it's own merit.

I don't really care when PO comes. It's life, what happens will happen, we'll just have to learn to adapt. After peakoil, people won't be sitting around saying "gee, I wished we had some oil so I can drive a car and grow food". We will change and adapt and accept a lower standard of living happily. You'd be suprised, comforts don't make you happy, you make you happy. You could be consuming in exess of $1million worth of consumer item a day and it won't guarantee you'll be happier than someone who spends $1 a day or the person who went camping in the forest.

[untothislast]

Once the dust settles, the main question we'll have to ask ourselves is whether we all get straight back onto the same treadmill again - having learned the hardest of lessons that the promises of endless economic 'growth' were unsustainable and unattainable all along - or do we rethink our values and societal models - and actually have a go at making genuine progress for a change?
But any form of transition will be far from smooth. In the short term, a lot of people who've seen their aspirations blown out of the water, are going to be highly suggestible to those who inevitably step in to exploit dissatisfaction - offering to provide 'leadership' at times of crisis. This is something I'm really worried about. I also think that those who envisage a sort of bucolic agrarian paradise are in for a real shock. We will still have the same authoritarian governments, and they'll only have stronger arguments for taking more direct control over subsequent food and water distribution. Think back to when Monsanto tried to introduce its 'terminator gene' technology, to stop third-world farmers being able to produce seeds from their own annual crops. That should give you some idea of what to expect.

[Paul64]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('untothislast', 'I') also think that those who envisage a sort of bucolic agrarian paradise are in for a real shock. We will still have the same authoritarian governments, and they'll only have stronger arguments for taking more direct control over subsequent food and water distribution. Think back to when Monsanto tried to introduce its 'terminator gene' technology, to stop third-world farmers being able to produce seeds from their own annual crops. That should give you some idea of what to expect.

[NeoPeasant]

I don't want everyone to suffer, but I admit I wouldn't mind seeing this guy get bitch slapped.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')oogle dude,

Have you seen the price of gas? It's down. If we manage to get alamists like you out of the way, we'll be able to drill our own oil soon and that will drive it down even further. Your fever-dream of an America with $5.00 / gallon gas is not right around the corner. What is right around the corner is a mass of soon to be sixteen year olds who are going to be on the roads with the rest of us.

The fact of the matter is Utah is growing. You can't slow it and you can't stop it by fixing artificial constraints. You can't hope traffic gets so bad that people will just stop moving here. 70% of this state is wilderness, a few more houses and roads aren't going to make us like New York or LA - except of course for their traffic if we don't get new roads.

Dan the Barbarian

[thuja]

Oil going down in price only means that the oil will get used up faster and end Dan the Brabarian's paradisical view of a growing and thriving Utah. Too bad the mormon's are going to &%#% their pants when the oil does dry up and they can't drive their escalades and heat their monumental super-church's. I guess its comments like those that bring out the arrogant "let-them-feel-the-pain" sentiment inside me.

Of course, I know they're just trying to hang on to something to believe and hope in. Its pretty painful to change your whole philosophy and say we're on the Titanic and the iceberg is dead ahead.

[foodnotlawns]

I can't wait. Every weekday is pure torture. I am not cut out for office existence or being "part of the machine." I am happiest being outside, doing manual labor, but I've been squeezed into this office existence because you can't make a living doing honest outside labor any more.

My fervent prayer of Peak Oil is to bring down the pigs and make it so that outside work is again "a real job."

It was a big bait and switch.

We were all suckered into modern existence, and once the die was cast and there was no going back, they snatched away the benefits of modern existence from us and turned us into their slaves.

They are micromanaging our lives, but what's really amusing is what a bad job they are doing of it!

They are really making a hash of it! I think it's because they are in a bubble and believe that the outside world doesnt' affect them.

Yet they insist on CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL!

With control comes responsibility. They are missing that big point.

It's going to be hell on earth for several years. This tortured office existence is going to seem like HEAVEN in comparison.

But it has to happen. It's a HELL we must endure, and try to survive.

People will be a lot nicer after it. Right now they are so full of their self importance. They fancy themselves aristocrats, or "little emperors."

I think that when TSHTF these very self important people will have little qualms about committing armed robbery and murder. They will trade their Armani suit robbery violent banditry in a blink of an eye.

That's right. Wall Street broker types will be making armed raids on farms or anyone they think has something they want. It's already part of their ethic, and that's why we are in this mess.

The elites have become a culture of criminal bandits, answerable to no law.

Of course this will mean civil war in the midst of starvation and chaos.

Thinking it through like this makes it way more scary than just fantasizing about not commuting any more.

By the way, for all you farmers out there, I highly recommend "One Straw Revolution" by Masanobu Fukuoka. Turns out you can grow 1000 pounds of grain on a quarter acre.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'M')y entire life has been a love affair with the outdoors. My latest is mushroom hunting in the Pacific Northwest. It gets me out all winter long and up and over the mountains Before that it was hiking and camping, birdwatching, clamming and fishing, and even a little hunting.

[rogerhb]

Uncertainty sucks, it's stressful.

Which is why people like job security, something we can't rely on now.

At least once we all know we are over the edge we can forget about "are we there yet". We'll be there and it'll be obvious.

All we have to worry about is rate of decline and ignoring the sooth-sayers who say "don't worry it's just temporary, the wings have fallen off the plane but there are a couple of engineers in row 27 who know how to do sheet metal work."

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')hat a cool hobby! Amanita muscaria grows up there. Ever eat any of those? Those are the ones with the orange and red dots.