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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Crash 101, part of the Demosphere project

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

What do you think about this idea?

Poll ended at Sat 19 Nov 2005, 01:04:08

Love it. Sign me up!
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No votes
Hate it.
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Total votes : 20

Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby rogerhb » Fri 21 Oct 2005, 03:56:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cleisthenis', 'B')ack on topic. Does anyone have any links to books or online resources for the topic of surviving the collapse?


You could visit the Arch-Bishop Savinar at Life after the oil crash

He is actually looking at what is it going to be like the other side, what to do in the mean time etc.

There is also the Planning for the Future forum here which has a wealth of suggestions.

Basic recommendations are:

1. Get out of debt

2. Get out of the city

Other than that it depends how bad you think things might get and how fast a slide we'll be on, and whether you have any dependants.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby katkinkate » Fri 21 Oct 2005, 07:52:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cleisthenis', 'Y')eah you should check it out then. In wiki jargon, when you make a change or contribution to an article, it is considered making an 'edit'.


No, making changes to an article is editing, not "making edits." Do you see how ridiculous the latter is, by contrast? It's barely even English---sounds like something an immigrant might say.


Maybe we should offer a course entitled "English 101: English grammar and spelling for the world wide web."
Kind regards, Katkinkate

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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby Heineken » Fri 21 Oct 2005, 10:04:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cleisthenis', 'Y')eah you should check it out then. In wiki jargon, when you make a change or contribution to an article, it is considered making an 'edit'.


No, making changes to an article is editing, not "making edits." Do you see how ridiculous the latter is, by contrast? It's barely even English---sounds like something an immigrant might say.


Maybe we should offer a course entitled "English 101: English grammar and spelling for the world wide web."


Personally, I think it's too late to save the English language. The sub is headed for the bottom and can't resurface.
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby Heineken » Fri 21 Oct 2005, 10:15:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cleisthenis', 'H')aha, I can't help the jargon I've inherited from the wiki community. :(
What shall we say instead when someone makes a specific edit to an article? :razz:


That usage is certainly less egregious, but in the business (in the past, anyway) we've tended to say "make a change" rather than "make an edit," since "edit" evolved primarily as a verb, not a noun (it's usually clear from the context that editing is being referred to). This is another case of turning verbs into nouns, something Orwell disparaged as a route to obfuscation. "Edit" as a noun has now become so widespread that American Heritage has been forced to recognize it (that doesn't necessarily make it a good thing, though).

Thanks for being such a good sport, Cleisthenis. I know I belong to a dying age, but I'm increasingly proud of that as I witness what's replacing it. Today's published communications (both paper and online) are riddled with gibberish and undebatable errors. Although it's easy to dismiss my concerns as those of some schoolmarmish grammarian, they in fact have large implications for our society.
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby Cleisthenis » Sun 23 Oct 2005, 20:36:55

That's actually one of the saving graces of the wiki platform. If you see a grammatical error in our Crash 101 project, you simply click the "Edit this page" button and correct it.

As far as this topic is concerned, if anyone is in fact interested in this collective publication, and is familiar with the 'Planning for the Future' forum, perhaps a good place to start would be combing through it and help to organize many of those ideas into our wiki page (originally linked on the first page).

From there, we can maybe begin deliberating on a logical chapter sequence.
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby Cleisthenis » Mon 24 Oct 2005, 22:58:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cleisthenis', 'A')s part of the Demosphere project we have started work on a collective publication, entitled "Crash 101". For a backgrounder on myself and the project see my thread in the Welcome forum below:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic13968.html

The objective (on our wiki) is to 'open-source' the development of a survival guide for a potential economic collapse (or depression).

In this thread I'd like to discuss the viability of such a publication, and explore different resources both on and off peakoil.com to research in this endeavour.

Thoughts?


I think that it is a great idea :lol: but I'm kind of busy right now :cry:

Still busy?
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby bobcousins » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 15:17:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cleisthenis', 'A')s far as this topic is concerned, if anyone is in fact interested in this collective publication, and is familiar with the 'Planning for the Future' forum, perhaps a good place to start would be combing through it and help to organize many of those ideas into our wiki page (originally linked on the first page).

From there, we can maybe begin deliberating on a logical chapter sequence.


What exactly is the scope of the project? Is it going to cover things like how to grow vegetables, or also include how to rebuild society?

I see two main problems, to plan successfully you need to know what the future is, and 2) after 10,000 years of civilisation we are no nearer to finding an ideal way to run society. Given the range of opinions, I don't see how you can build a consensus on either of those.

I think that your project is one of many worthy projects that are simply too ambitious, and become abandoned when the main people involded get bored with it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'B')asic recommendations are:

1. Get out of debt

2. Get out of the city


1. Can't agree more!

2. I don't think that can be a solution for everyone, and may not be a good solution anyway. Surely the recommendation should be "find a sustainable community". It is a myth that rural living is automatically more sustainable, rural communities are just as dependent on the infrastructure of society as city dwellers.
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby Cleisthenis » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 19:15:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobcousins', '
')What exactly is the scope of the project? Is it going to cover things like how to grow vegetables, or also include how to rebuild society?


How to grow your own food would be a great chapter. I think the whole thing would be an exploration in general, on how to rebuild society. I don't think it's that ambitious. The beauty of the wiki is it allows lots of people to contribute minor amounts of info and energy to great effect.
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby rogerhb » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 19:21:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cleisthenis', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobcousins', 'W')hat exactly is the scope of the project? Is it going to cover things like how to grow vegetables, or also include how to rebuild society?


The beauty of the wiki is it allows lots of people to contribute minor amounts of info and energy to great effect.


I'm all for avoiding redundent duplication of effort. If you have something unique go into detail, if you are providing duplication, why not just provide references to original sites.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby Cleisthenis » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 19:28:27

I'm sorry, I didn't quite get the jist of what you meant there.
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby rogerhb » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 19:32:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cleisthenis', 'I')'m sorry, I didn't quite get the jist of what you meant there.


Avoiding duplication of effort, if the information on sustainable living is already out there, you don't need to spend time writing it up. Just link to it.
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby Cleisthenis » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 19:49:15

Thank you for the clarification. We have no intentions to re-invent the wheel here. We hope to use the existing online sustainable living resources to build something even more specific and nice. "Surviving and rebuilding after an economic collapse - or minor variations thereof." Sustainable living certainly is a major part of it, but to my knowledge it hasn't been packaged and combined with other topics in quite the same way.
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Re: = Crash 101 =

Postby MattSavinar » Wed 09 Nov 2005, 00:37:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobcousins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cleisthenis', 'A')s far as this topic is concerned, if anyone is in fact interested in this collective publication, and is familiar with the 'Planning for the Future' forum, perhaps a good place to start would be combing through it and help to organize many of those ideas into our wiki page (originally linked on the first page).

From there, we can maybe begin deliberating on a logical chapter sequence.


What exactly is the scope of the project? Is it going to cover things like how to grow vegetables, or also include how to rebuild society?

I see two main problems, to plan successfully you need to know what the future is, and 2) after 10,000 years of civilisation we are no nearer to finding an ideal way to run society. Given the range of opinions, I don't see how you can build a consensus on either of those.

I think that your project is one of many worthy projects that are simply too ambitious, and become abandoned when the main people involded get bored with it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'B')asic recommendations are:

1. Get out of debt

2. Get out of the city


1. Can't agree more!

2. I don't think that can be a solution for everyone, and may not be a good solution anyway. Surely the recommendation should be "find a sustainable community". It is a myth that rural living is automatically more sustainable, rural communities are just as dependent on the infrastructure of society as city dwellers.


I think getting out of the city is GREAT if you can, but it is not for everybody. If you are dependent on the hospitals or other services, I suspect these will be cut to the outlaying regions prior to being cut in the centers of economic activity. Same with postal services, police and fire, etc.. .

So if need to be near a hospital, you're best staying in a city and hoping things don't get too bad before it's your time to pass on.

HOWEVER, there are some citites that I suspect will fare much worse than others, like Los Angeles.

Of course, this is all just speculation. Albeit I don't think it's of the "pull it out of my ass" type speculation.

Best,

Matt (in Santa Rosa, CA for the time being.)




Los Angeles? Can't see things going too well there for so many reasons I wouldn't know where to start.

Best,

Matt
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