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why are humans like this?

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 23:17:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakKYJelly', 'D')oes evolution go forward or backward?


Neither, time advances but species change as others have said. For example moles' eyesight dimmed, snakes lost their legs etc, dolphins returned to the sea.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby evilmonkeyspanker » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 23:22:26

Please excuse my ignorance... when where dolphins out walking around?
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby 0mar » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 01:47:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auctionmonster', 'P')lease excuse my ignorance... when where dolphins out walking around?


50 - 60 million years ago IIRC

Their descendants are hippos and other ungulates (hoofed things).
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby aldente » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 02:06:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stupid_monkeys', 'W')e evolved into curious, spiritual creatures, but remained stuck in a physical reality.

Correct. Astonishing though how many traps were set and how easy it is (or was) to fall into them.
There is a double "entendre" though in the sense that the process is not a finite one!
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby Paul64 » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 08:59:39

My 2c stab at this. Certainly humans and other primates enjoy the activity of creation, and feel gratification when they build or invent something. This is the case even when the invention is totally artificial and detached from nature, such as to give one modern example out of countless possible ones, a cool software program.

And to add to this of course the inventors and creators throughout time have always been esteemed and of high status and leadership level within their group, and thus had the best mating opportunities as well. Such pleasurable benefits in the here and now for these individuals certainly override any consideration or worry that what they have added to the world is not in the best long-term interests and survival of the group, let alone consideration of the effects on other species and the ecosystem.

So what we see...as these countless ideas and inventions have built upon themselves, over time, we have ended up where we are now.
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby sklump » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 14:12:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lotrfan55345', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakKYJelly', 'Y')es, the higher the IQ, the more rampaging is done.


How do you figure that?


It takes brains to set IQ tests. Obviously, the kind of culture that reckon as murky a notion as intelligence can crystallize into a one-dimensional "quotient", is the kind of culture that will stomp all over everything it sees centuries before it wonders what it just trampled.
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby peaker_2005 » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 14:20:57

Why are humans like this?

Simple. We are irrational, sometimes mindless, and often self-righteous creatures. We create our own system, irregardless of how that system will interact with other sytems on our planet.

The lesson is:

Be a good steward, rather than try to pwn everything...
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 21:24:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peaker_2005', 'B')e a good steward, rather than try to pwn everything...


Was that "own" or "pawn"?
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby Drakn » Thu 06 Oct 2005, 21:22:24

Why are humans like this?

Perhaps the biggest over-arching factor that makes us so successful is that we are never done. At least some of us. We continually try to solve things, regardless of it's relevance. Take theoretical physics for example. This is of course aided by large mental capacity. One peculiarity of humans of course is the fact we have a tendency to believe in gods, omens and signs. Now, I'll concede this tendency is not as strong in modern society because we are so advanced, but I note it is still around. Explaining this part of humanity requires a tale.

Perhaps I will write it later.

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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby bobcousins » Thu 06 Oct 2005, 21:36:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('keladry', 'N')ature is a balance.


Hmmm, not really. Nature is a complex, dynamic system. It naturally has cycles of boom and bust. Look at cyanobacteria. They ruled the earth for millions of years. Unfortunately they polluted the atmosphere with their waste. This was handy for life that breathed oxygen though.

It is a romantic human notion of nature as being balanced or harmonious. In reality it is a chaotic system. Both the Earth, and life on it, moves through periods of stability and wild variation. So a lifeform apparently running rampant and changing the planet to its detriment is really perfectly natural, in that it is within the parameters of the system.

The only odd thing about it is that the species involved has sufficient awareness to realise what it is doing (sometimes).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's hard to put this all into words, but something is not right here. This goes beyond Peak Oil. Why are we like this? If we came from nature, then why are we so unnatural?


I would contend that we are not, it is just that we think we are. I really don't see a qualitative difference between us and other species, it's a question of degree. In particular, our ability to think in the abstract and a sense of self. Other animals shows signs of this ability, but nowhere near as much. In this, dolphins are smarter than chimps. Even birds can count.

In order to solve problems more effectively, you need to place yourself in the picture. This requires you to create an entity representing the self, "me", which can then be manipulated as an abstract entity with other entities. For example, what will "me" eat for dinner tomorrow?

This ability develops during childhood. A side effect of this is that "me" becomes the primary motive and everything else as secondary objects. I think that is what leads us to an apparent disconnect with (the rest of) nature. It gives us the impression that we are the centre of the universe and that everything else revolves around us.

Science has shown that complex and completely unpredictable behaviours can arise from systems with very simple rules. This can be a source of enlightment or emptiness, it is up to you. Some may think there is something spiritual/mystical/metaphysical going on, but none of these are needed to explain it. In fact, research suggests that people have a part of the brain which creates a spiritual feeling. I suspect that this is an adaption to insulate us from the horror of a meaningless universe, once we gained the ability to comprehend death.

The humble bacteria seeks a food source, grows and multiplies. We do exactly the same thing, just a lot more effectively and with a lot more noise and paraphernalia. What happens when we exhaust the food supply? Ask the cyanobacteria.
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby Doly » Fri 07 Oct 2005, 05:28:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobcousins', '
')The humble bacteria seeks a food source, grows and multiplies. We do exactly the same thing, just a lot more effectively and with a lot more noise and paraphernalia. What happens when we exhaust the food supply? Ask the cyanobacteria.


The difference is, we think a lot better than bacteria. This makes the whole situation a lot more complex. I also believe it means we have better chances of survival than the cyanobacteria.
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Re: why are humans like this?

Unread postby katkinkate » Fri 07 Oct 2005, 06:49:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobcousins', '
')The humble bacteria seeks a food source, grows and multiplies. We do exactly the same thing, just a lot more effectively and with a lot more noise and paraphernalia. What happens when we exhaust the food supply? Ask the cyanobacteria.


The difference is, we think a lot better than bacteria. This makes the whole situation a lot more complex. I also believe it means we have better chances of survival than the cyanobacteria.


Nope, the cyanobacteria were among the first living things and will probably be one of the last. It is humans who are more endangered with extinction because our existance depend on more conditions being met.
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