[caysal]

Has anyone noticed that U.S.A. leadership is sounding more and more
Orwellian all the time? Seems like Washington has become a little preoccupied with the military don’t you think? If President Bush, and he has begun to make his moves, can appeal, The Posse Comitatus Act and manage to have standing armies authorized as law enforcement; it may be time to leave Rome my friends, because Caesar will have crossed the Rubicon.
Personally, I detect a seismic tremor beneath my feet and have a sense that it may have to do with pending economic failure. Does the shrewd bushman know something that we don’t? I suspect so! Are we sheep about to become lamb chops?

[Ancien_Opus]

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0222-22.htm

Pretty much says it all.

Regards,

[caysal]

Thanks _opus, that was vary interesting, and should people believe there is a parallel with the circumstances of today or not, it is certainly hard to dispute the similarities.
A die has been cast with peak oil and the consequences of this reality coupled with an already troubling economy could easily lead the disillusioned to chaos. The intended proposition of my topic was to learn if anyone else hears the footsteps and the drum beats of alarm. Are we seeing the prelude to socio economic reversal for this great nation?
Is oil/energy the catalyst for crises....

[gego]

The more oppressive a government becomes, the more likely is rebellion.

The historical patterns recognized in the book, "The Fourth Turning," predict a major crisis in this time frame to be followed 15 years later by violent, nation threatening upheaval (either a major world war or US civil war). The crisis in my view is the energy depletion coupled with the failure of the government debt/credit money system. I think the prospects for a US civil war are quite high. Of the last three such desperation conflicts, two have been civil war (American Revolution, Civil War, WWII).

The trend in government growth has been expanding at compound growth rates, so the additions by Bush are just a continuation of power expansion. I doubt that the alternative party would have stopped the trend, but rather might have expanded government into alternative portions of our lives.

So, Bush is pushing for an American Gestapo, which will just add more fuel to the civil conflict fires, especially as things get worse and the Gestapo starts flexing its muscle against segments of the US population. Seems like things are right on schedule, sort of unfolding as should be expected.

[RdSnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', 'T')he more oppressive a government becomes, the more likely is rebellion.

The historical patterns recognized in the book, "The Fourth Turning," predict a major crisis in this time frame to be followed 15 years later by violent, nation threatening upheaval (either a major world war or US civil war). The crisis in my view is the energy depletion coupled with the failure of the government debt/credit money system. I think the prospects for a US civil war are quite high. Of the last three such desperation conflicts, two have been civil war (American Revolution, Civil War, WWII).

The trend in government growth has been expanding at compound growth rates, so the additions by Bush are just a continuation of power expansion. I doubt that the alternative party would have stopped the trend, but rather might have expanded government into alternative portions of our lives.

So, Bush is pushing for an American Gestapo, which will just add more fuel to the civil conflict fires, especially as things get worse and the Gestapo starts flexing its muscle against segments of the US population. Seems like things are right on schedule, sort of unfolding as should be expected.

[gego]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', '
')You are dreaming if you think the general public is going to rise up any time soon. Take a look at any currently oppressive regime around the world and you will see decades worth of misery and slaughter before anything happens.

[IanC]

I agree with all the posts thus far - there are some undeniable trends moving the US toward financial ruin. Peak Oil is part of the overall problem. I'm usually not one to predict Civil War or apocolypse, but I will say that PO certainly has the potential to beget both. What worries me is how closely linked our food supply and its distribution is dependant on cheap oil. When the energy which sustains our food system becomes too expensive, people will be HUNGRY. This is much more serious than worrying about what product to buy next or if you can get the dream job you want.

Think about the Psychologist Maslow's heirarchy of needs: he said that people had to take care of basic needs of food, clothing, shelter, etc. before they could work on emotional fulfillment and creativity. Peak Oil will bring many of us way back down the heirarchy to worrying bout where our next meal is coming from and if we can feed our families. THIS, in my opinion is where the real danger for our society lies.

We are already seeing this in Indonesia where people are battling riot police over high fuel costs. The people are not mad because it costs a lot to fill the Escalade or Hummer; they are poor people in an overpopulated country in very real danger of starvation and death due to high oil prices.

All of us in the Industrialized world have lot to lose in the coming decades, but at least we will feel the effects of PO after the developing world. We all need to prepare the best we can and confront our leaders with this issue at every opportunity.

-Ian C.
People's Republic of Portland Oregon

[caysal]

We indeed live in a strange new world, but I would add it is more dangerous then strange. Not since the Cuban missal crises has the flame been this close to the powder keg, and not since the Civil War has Americas future and her identity been so threatened. Neo conservatives have long had a presence among the elitists in both political parties; always pushing for one form of Pax Americana or another,but after 9/11 there power grew exponentially; surprisingly I would have to say the Bush administration has probably shown some restraint considering the pressure it is under from so many powerful individuals within its own ranks. The evangelical movement that was once kept at a distance from politics has now been constructively utilized at the urging of Carl Rove, and the first amendment is in clear and present danger. Its becoming harder and harder to distinguish US military operations designed to fight terrorism from those designed to protect energy assets”. When our nation seeks to retain a wildly disproportionate share of a dwindling world resource by force and the threat of force, refusing to make any serious effort to restrain its consumption of that resource, it is no surprise that it and the government it leads is far less attractive to others than the great, generous democracy of my youth". Our economy once the envy of the world has been in steady decline ever since Dick Nixon took us of the gold standard. Ross Perot warned us of the consequences of out-sourcing and the country elected Bill Clinton anyway, and NAFTA became a reality. Now, eleven years later, the results are in and they clearly show the damage NAFTA has brought to millions of people in the U.S., Mexico and Canada. Now the same interests who got us into NAFTA are now expanding it too lock in 31 more countries in Latin American and the Caribbean through the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) and the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) The fact that the economic policies of the present administration have encouraged debt; that we have printed so much fiat currency that the average price of single family home had reached the outrages sum $264,540 in Oct. of 2004 and that growth in home prices over the past year surpasses any increase in 25 years." should be alarming to every last one of us. In my humble opinion every truly patriotic American flying the red white and blue should lower it to half mast, and quit buying into the lie.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IanC', '
')We are already seeing this in Indonesia where people are battling riot police over high fuel costs. The people are not mad because it costs a lot to fill the Escalade or Hummer; they are poor people in an overpopulated country in very real danger of starvation and death due to high oil prices.