[Ludi]

I think we need more threads about solutions and how to deal with the problems we're facing with peak oil, because many new people coming here seem to think everyone here is preaching "we're all going to die prematurely from peak oil." Which I don't think that many people here are preaching. So again, I'd like to encourage y'all to post more solution threads, just to stop the endless strawman "You say we're all going to die!" nonsense.

Either that or mods should periodically bump the old solution threads.

Monte might want to consider starting a new solution thread, since so many people accuse him of claiming we're all going to die from peak oil.

[PhilBiker]

I went to Congressman Roscoe Bartlett's town hall meeting this week about peak oil. The three panelists who talked about the problem (the usual suspects - Defeyes, Simmons, and Heinberg) all said the same thing. The three people talking about solutions were so divergent that they may as well have been talking about different planets.

The first panelist Donald Wulfinghoff gave a very convincing speech about energy efficiency. A very holistic and well researched approach, I was impressed. It kind of made me feel good because one of the cornerstones of his statements was that we all have to learn to live locally in small walkable communities where we don't need a car to go to work, school, the market, parks. That made me feel good because I live in such a "new urbanist" neighborhood right now. However, there's no easy way to retrofit the millions of acres of sprawl to new urbanism. Sure, refurbish a few city blocks or start with a greenfield and you can build a nice urbanist town, but what do you do with what we're stuck with?

The second panelist John Spears came across to me as just plain clueless. He said once that fossil fuel depletion is not far away, it's something that our children and our grandchildren will have to deal with. He repeated that later that it's something that our grandchildren will have to deal with. Um, hello! It's something we need to deal with RIGHT EFFING NOW!!!! A lot of the stuff that he promoted was completely the opposite of Mr. Wulfinghoff's suggestions. He promoted hydrogen and fuel cells, in addition to realistic renewable energy solutions.

The third panelist John Howeimpressed the hell out of me. Basically he very eloquently and non-insultingly blasted both the previous presenters' ideas as ridiculous, derided "fool cells" and the "hydrogen economy" much to the delight of the well educated audience. He related that the more research you do, the more closely you look into the problems the more you realize that we are completely f**ked (he didn't use that exact terminology) and there's no hope at all whatsoever for any kind of soft landing.

Mr. Howe's arguments were the most complelling of all despite that they aren't what I wanted to hear.

Nobody has a clue what to do, there is no solution, dark days are coming. That's why there aren't a lot of threads on solutions... There are no solutions. Hopefully we can limp along with efficiency and renewables as we downconvert to a simpler way of life. .....But who the hell am I fooling? I'm about the most gloomy doomer here, though I usually don't try to let it get to me too much.....

[holmes]

The best solution I see now is to get into a stagnant community. If possible.
This term "stagnant" is used by real estate people. It means no commercial sprawl. The community has chosen not to have Mcdonlads, wall mart, etcc. community over greed. Small business over big coporations. If possible buy land, set up a business or work for someone. they are usually agricultural towns surrounded by much recreational wilderness land. when the cards go all the recreationalists are gone for good. I personally am set up in one. it works. And the culture rocks.
you can get free pick of their tire and material dumps too.
So single migrator with free spirit girlfriend/boyfriend anticonsumerism types should have no problem riding the lightning. just leave the debauchery and baggage in the elite cities and burbs.
so I dont see where this whole we are all dead thing comes from. however it might stem from the sense of entitlement we have where we wait for the private corps and gubmint to set everything up for us. that will never happen ever. and maybe we have a problem communicating without PC hatred. I do not know.

[FatherOfTwo]

So-lu-tion: the answer to or disposition of a problem

Prob-lem: a question to be considered, solved, or answered

So, what is the question you want answered Ludi? Is it:
1) How do we continue the status quo?
2) How do we transition to a more sustainable way of living on the planet?
3) As fossil fuel supplies decline, how do we ensure we avoid catastrophic resource wars and societal collapse?

Without having reflected upon the true nature of energy and the impact of infinite growth on a finite planet, as oil gets scarcer, Joe Q Public would define the question as #1.

Whereas a lot of people on this forum, for a variety of different reasons, have no interest whatsoever in solving question #1. They either are unhappy with their allotment in life or think that humans are wrecking the ecological balance of the planet and living in an unsustainable manor. They demand that the question be #2.

While I believe question 2 is important, I personally believe it can’t be addressed until we address 3). (or preferably addressed in tandem)

But after typing this out, I realize the question isn’t any one of those 3. We're getting to far ahead of ourselves. The question really is “how do we make the majority of the people figure out that #1 ISN’T the question to be asking!” Sadly, before we can make them realize this they need to be asking question #1 first! (BTW that's why I think peakoil.com is such a valuable resource.. it gives people a place to see how oil depletion ties into everything.)

The fact that so few people aren't even asking any questions yet is why I begrudgingly accept that nothing is going to get done until the problems are very apparent and excruciating. In some ways this gives me hope, because we haven't really tried to tackle the problem. The full bear of humankind's ingenuity won’t be pressed into service until its apparent that it must be. But in other ways this gives me reasons to despair, because by that point the hurdle will be very high, and the room for error low.


PS
One important caveat: there are those who firmly believe that while we’re not being too smart in being over reliant on fossil fuels, there are plenty of other forms of energy to, eventually, continue the status quo. But even if our energy problems continue to be solved, and even if it is possible to continue to overrule nature, unbridled human growth and consumption, IMO, brings up images of a planet completely devoid of anything “natural”. But, it could very well be that is our destiny. Ick.)

[Ludi]

From my point of view, I would like to see solutions offered for #2 & #3. I don't personally believe it is possible or desirable to solve #1.

[Aaron]

Also worth noting that despite the dim prospects we have of avoiding the consequences of depletion, we should try anyway.

A battle against war and certain death for millions with little or no hope to prevail?

Count me in.

...what?

[holmes]

meet me at the geiser hotel in october. well have some drinks in the bar. .
discuss life. Ill be out thar scanning some more land.

http://www.geisergrand.com/temp/food.html

[katkinkate]

There's no definitive answers to the problem at a governmental/national level because the governments won't act before they have to or they will lose votes.

The only solutions are at the individual, family, small community level. Waiting for someone else to do something to solve the problem for you, probably won't work. You have to solve it for yourself and your family and community.

Thus the rise in popularity of the ecovillage and intentional community movements.

"You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."

-- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad)

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'T')he best solution I see now is to get into a stagnant community.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', 'T')here's no definitive answers to the problem at a governmental/national level because the governments won't act before they have to or they will lose votes.

The only solutions are at the individual, family, small community level. Waiting for someone else to do something to solve the problem for you, probably won't work. You have to solve it for yourself and your family and community.

Thus the rise in popularity of the ecovillage and intentional community movements.

"You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."

-- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad)

[Doly]

I'd like to point out that the solutions mentioned seem to be always either at individual/community level or at government level. What about business level? As far as I can tell, I'm the only person that ever bothered to write a list of recommendations for business taking into account PO. You can find it at www.powerswitch.org.uk

[Ludi]

That's a very useful resource Doly.

[Cyrus]

Heh. I've been here for a while and never came across that site in any of the threads. Good find!

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'T')he best solution I see now is to get into a stagnant community.