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The Coming Ice Age

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby Chaparral » Mon 26 Sep 2005, 01:31:17

If we do have a return of the glaciers, Everything in Europe north of the Alps could be in for hard times. The Mediterranean climate zones, such as Southern California as well as the coast of North Africa, the holy land and southern Europe might become cooler and wetter with pine forest replacing the matorral, chaparro and chaparral vegetation.

Fossil pollen studies indicate the Los Angeles Basin was covered with pine and oak forest during the last ice age. It'd be a damn sight better than the concrete and asphalt that covers the place now :twisted:

The Amazon basin was supposedly drier and more seasonal with the true lowland rainforest restricted to isolated refugia.

The Middle East and the Sahara were supposedly wetter so we might see the desert give way to grassland or savanna.

Of course, not all glaciations were of equal severity. Sometimes the 2km thick ice sheets came far south, other times they supposedly stayed a little further north. Mining those tar sands in Alberta would be a Beeeeyotch if the glaciers showed up to stay one winter :twisted:
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 26 Sep 2005, 06:33:29

Kinda difficult for pines and oaks to root in the concrete of the Los Angeles basin...
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby holmes » Mon 26 Sep 2005, 13:30:17

I have always said a quick short ice age has a high probability of occuring. Put enough byproducts into the atmosphere and things will change. A short one could take care of of the bloat in one season.
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby oowolf » Mon 26 Sep 2005, 15:57:13

I just finished reading this:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books
Climate Crash/John Cox A succinct compilation of latest research on sudden onset ice ages.
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby lotrfan55345 » Mon 26 Sep 2005, 16:18:23

Image

=D
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby lowem » Mon 26 Sep 2005, 19:02:23

Oh no, I have to drag out that line again!

Have we "reached a critical desalinization point"? :lol:
Live quotes - oil/gold/silver
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 26 Sep 2005, 19:26:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oowolf', 'I') just finished reading this:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books
Climate Crash/John Cox A succinct compilation of latest research on sudden onset ice ages.
Got this one and The Long Emergency on reserve at the library. Sounds interesting, oowolf. Meanwhile, Tom Wolfe's I am Charlotte Simmons is highly entertaining.
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby frankthetank » Tue 27 Sep 2005, 00:11:34

I've read a few of those books about ice ages (2MILE TIME MACHINE--excellent).

Its not that i disagree with the GW crowd..i agree that the planet is warming, i just think that it can only go so far before it FLIPS back the other extreme.

We once had it hit 90F and then less then 7days later it snowed! THis is @ under 1000ft elevation in the midwest. Have that happen during the growing season here in the midwest...ouch! Say bye bye soybeans/corn.
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby Chaparral » Tue 27 Sep 2005, 04:38:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'K')inda difficult for pines and oaks to root in the concrete of the Los Angeles basin...


Pavement cracks within a single human generation and that's without frost heave.

Some of the largest and most vigorous individual trees/cacti grow in areas surrounded solid rock; their roots follow fissures in the granite or limestone and enlarge the cracks and split the rock. Organic acids dissolve it. Rainfall that hits the solid rock is funneled into the cracks where the roots are and the plants show exceptional size because of it. I'd expect any seed that lodged in a crack in a parking lot to develop into an exceptionally large plant in the absence of competition until all paved surfaces were reduced to rubble fields and Walking through the remnants of a Walmart would be like walking through a stone-floored forest-the sort you'd see up in the San Bernardino Nat'l Forest by Mt San Gorgonio or Mt San Jacinto. Our artificial landscapes would cease to be recognizable within a century.
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 27 Sep 2005, 12:37:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chaparral', ' ')Our artificial landscapes would cease to be recognizable within a century.


That's very optimistic. :) But I'll try to believe you.
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby oowolf » Tue 27 Sep 2005, 17:20:33

Just got 'Dawn of Art; The Chauvet Cave'. The oldest known paintings in the world. Cro-Magnon cave art from 30.000+ years ago which shows that even during the last ice age art was an essential element of human life. These were REAL humans, not brainwashed, consumeroid-zombie, petroluem-sucking parasites.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books
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Re: The Coming Ice Age

Unread postby Chaparral » Wed 28 Sep 2005, 03:44:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chaparral', ' ')Our artificial landscapes would cease to be recognizable within a century.


That's very optimistic. :) But I'll try to believe you.


I did some plant transects for Cal Fish & Game about 10 years ago. You'd see trees and shrubs splitting old roads, foundation pads and paved areas in places where road maintanence and the like had ceased. You could follow the traces of old roads and irrigation lines by looking at changes in species composition along those linear traces. It's the sort of thing that you'd only notice from an aerial photograph or by walking along measuring the line-intercept of each species and finding these odd irregularities here and there and suddenly realizing that you were looking at a line of Eriodictyon clones that was following a buried and broken and long forgotten irrigation pipe or a line of California Buckwheat following an old road bed. The only hint of the road was the line of slightly different vegetation in a two year old aerial photo that corresponded with an actual working road in thirty year old photos; the line of dark-green buckwheat with it's reddish brown seed heads was in the middle of grey-green fields of Calif Sage and White Sage. Unless one really knew what to look for on the ground, one would never see the pattern if they were bushwhacking their way through on foot. Even old gravel pits mined for roadbuilding materials were covered over- all in a semi-arid climate. I can't imagine how fast the deterioration/regeneration would happen in say, the upper Midwest where they have frost heaving and the like.

There was a housing development that stalled out in the real estate recession of the early 1990s near LA/San Bernardino area. When I did some consulting work there in '96 to 99, All the unbuilt lots had reverted to native vegetation-not even weeds or pioneer species mind you but full on chaparral/coastal sage-scrub. These were areas that had been previously bulldozed. It was utterly amazing. Unfortunately, the area was built out in the last housing boom in around 2001 to 2003.
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