[Cool Hand Linc]

person to remain unnamed.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')iolence no matter the reason is evil,

[Specop_007]

Peace is a dream, a fools errand.

I'm not a victim.

[k_semler]

If provoked, yes I will fight using any and all (non lethal) means at my disposal. Unprovoked, I only did once, but I was extraordanarily drunk, so I had an excuse. Generally, if you don't fuck with me, I won't fuck with you. And yes, I fight dirty. The purpose of a fight is to whoop the other guys ass, not to put on a boxing-show. Ass whooping is serious businuss, not for fun. I have no resevations about kicking in the balls with my steel toe boots if that's the only way I could win. You gotta do what you gotta do. Just make sure the guy isn't going to get back up. And when he stops fighting you, stop kicking his ass. End of provocation equals end of fight for me.

Unless of course you meant with just words. I have no problems with that usually, but I generally still have to be provoked to engage in a flamewar. (a dissenting person who dosen't even attempt to use intelligent conversation, [feeding liberal BS], is good enough for a bitch session for me.) Of course, depending on how much I drank, I may find varying degrees of what was said to be bitch-worthy. The Federalies are free to bitch at as far as I am concerned though. They have done MORE than enough to get that at a bare minimum. (fucking feds are probably reading this, but I don't care becase I ain't doing nothing illegal. CIRCLE JERKS!!!)

And as for your scenarios:

1: Use anything and everything you can to stop the rape without endangering yourself. If he is occupied, you could probably rush him and get him to stop. If he is somewhat alert to his surroundings, you will probably have to kill him.

2. Rush the guy, and hit him in the nuts. If he dosent run when he sees you coming after him, he will once he gets to meet Mr. Knee up close and personal. Then hold him down and wait for police.

3. In Washington state, you would be legally justified in killing the perpetrator. I will leave the judgement to you, but the law is on your side. It would be ruled a justifiable homicide. Just for your review:

Does he have a means to kill you, (or others), or give you, (or others), severe fear for loss of life?
YES.

Does he have an opprotunity to kill you, (or others),or give you, (or others), severe fear for loss of life?
YES.

Does he have the intent to kill you, (or others), cause you, (or others), severe fear for loss of life?
YES.

Just renember bullets cannot be called back, and be sure that no innocents will be hurt when you discharge your weapon. And note I did not say ass-kicking. A mere ass kicking does not justify killing, but emminent fear of loss of life does. If all three of the conditions are not met, do not pull the trigger, you would regret it come court day. If all three of the above conditions are "yes", then I leave the desision to you.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

Well since I know who posted the information your quoting I will comment.

Yes, Violence is always the wrong answer, it is never ethical to start a fight or to hurt another human being.

On the other hand how can it be moral to allow one person to harm another when you can do something to prevent it?

You stated several specific cases, of which any rational, honest, caring person would attempt to help out the victim.

In the event of someone trying to start a fight with you, their are more than one way to escape. In a situation like that, if you can, run away. Unless you are Bruce Lee, you pretty much have no chance of winning that confrontation "3-4 on 1". In that situation fleeing is the better part of valour.

Even Ghandi said ... It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

[jato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')es, Violence is always the wrong answer, it is never ethical to start a fight or to hurt another human being.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

Violence as a tool... Yes I think I remember seeing that episode on Jerry Springer.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auctionmonster', '
')Unless you are Bruce Lee, you pretty much have no chance of winning that confrontation "3-4 on 1". In that situation fleeing is the better part of valour.

[jato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')iolence as a tool... Yes I think I remember seeing that episode on Jerry Springer.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

What kind of world do we live in, where violence seems to be the only answer?

I am a big guy about 6' 3" 250 pretty solid. I used to get into fights all the time, mostly with guys smaller than myself trying to prove themselves. I used to think violence was the only way to solve problems.

It isn't, no matter how many fight I won / lost / whatever the problems never went away, they always compounded. After growing up I came to realize that violence isn't the way. In the last 5 years I have been challanged to probably 40 fights. Most of these I have been able to walk away, in others I have just been forced to stop them and I have been able to do it without inflicting harm. In my earlier days when I would beat someone down, they would always come back later and usually with friends. I hope what I am saying here is not getting lost on deaf ears.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cool Hand Linc', '
')I am in a city park. A man begins to rape a 14 yo child in plain view for all to see. A person begins to call the police. Should I use violence to stop him or let him do what he will until the police arrive? Should the police use violence to stop him when they arrive?

My 78yo mother and I go shopping. She goes to the car before I do. As I leave the store I see a man attempting to steal her purse. She doesn't let go and he begins to hit her. Should I get involved? Again I see somebody else calling the police. Should I wait for the police and watch him hit her?

I go to the local convenience store. A large man 75 to 100 pounds larger than I. Doesn't like the way I look. He pushes me. I back away telling him I am not looking for trouble. He keeps pushing me. Before I can get into my car. He tells me he is going to kill me. Standing between me and my car. Preventing me from getting into my car. The I notice his friends behind me.

In each case here the violence has already begun. Rape of a child, hitting of an older woman relative and pushing me (with what clearly seems to be intent). How should I respond? Am I just if I take action?

[Cool Hand Linc]

Using what force is needed may become violence.

I am not attempting to advocate violence in general. But in specific situations maybe.

AuctionMonster, you want to know what the world is coming too? I do too. When I feel the need to carry protection. I see a real problem. I carry 15% pepper spray in a magnum can. Not a gun. If it gets crazy enough I would carry a gun but I choose a non lethal method of defense at this time.

Did you assume I was attempting to advocate lethal force? I broke my back in a climbing accident 17 years ago. I am not a strong big man. Nothing like laying in the hospital for 2 weeks 1 week of intense pain as I have never experienced any other time in my life, to make a man consider other methods of self defense. I can walk and run a little but not much. Most people would never know I had a problem. I don't wear a brace and function normally for the most part.

Currently the local law doesn't prohibit mace but lately some people have been robbed after being maced. The law could change. I hope they add mace to the concealed carry law.

In each case listed before I can take action enough to stop or change what is happening and not be required to use deadly force.

Mace would be a last resort and only if I really felt immediate danger to life or health. I would also follow up with police as is required.

I do believe that at times a violent crime places a law abiding citizen in a situation where they must do what must be done.

Still the rape of a child makes me advocate whatever means is necessary to stop what is happening! I just hope I am not ever placed in this situation.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')es, Violence is always the wrong answer, it is never ethical to start a fight or to hurt another human being.

[UIUCstudent01]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auctionmonster', 'W')hat kind of world do we live in, where violence seems to be the only answer?

I am a big guy about 6' 3" 250 pretty solid. I used to get into fights all the time, mostly with guys smaller than myself trying to prove themselves. I used to think violence was the only way to solve problems.

It isn't... BLAH BLAH BLAH... without inflicting harm. In my earlier days when I would beat someone down, they would always come back later and usually with friends. I hope what I am saying here is not getting lost on deaf ears.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auctionmonster', 'Y')es, Violence is always the wrong answer, it is never ethical to start a fight or to hurt another human being.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

I can't sit by and let violence and torture be turned into a ethnocentric cultural debate. What is this "if it feels good do it" crap. I am sorry I would never let someone harm a child or steal someones purse. There is a difference between violence to defend and violence just for the sake of it.

This world is nasty, dirty, and evil. Too many people just want to chalk it up to "well, thats just the way there society works" To that I say BullShit Violence is used by those who don't have the balls to find another way. One thing is for certain and if you don't agree with it go move there "Slitting someones throat and watching them die, then playing with their head like a basketball is FREAKING EVIL and those that do that should not exist, and those that are too complacent to care or think that it is okay are just as sick as those the commit the crime of violence. I am not Ghandi, I know when to kick someones ass and when to walk away, but some of you live with the highschool mentality of an EYE FOR AND EYE and that you wouldn't want your buddies to think your a pussy.

The "pussy" is the one who fights, the one without the intelligence to find another way.

[oiless]

Auctionmonster:
How the hell does one get "challenged" to forty odd fights in 5 years? I havn't run across more than five or ten people in the last 20 years stupid enough to want to fight me, and of those only two or three were actually so brainless as to want to carry through after my diplomacy.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

I live in a violent area, and I visit way too many bars

[Cool Hand Linc]

Here here, I have actually been challenged only a couple of times in 15 or 20 years now. Most adults never have things break down to the point of so many challenges. What are you doing to bring this about? Where do you live? Are you starting the problems?

The point of this thread was not about war. Not about the right or wrong of war. So if you attempt to take it there your going off topic.

The same guy who said,$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')iolence no matter the reason is evil,

[evilmonkeyspanker]

No just a difference of terms, I call that person the gutless coward there is a difference. I am not backing down from my position or changing my position... violence is always evil ... sometimes it is a nessessary evil

[Cool Hand Linc]

lol oic

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oiless', 'A')uctionmonster:
How the hell does one get "challenged" to forty odd fights in 5 years? I havn't run across more than five or ten people in the last 20 years stupid enough to want to fight me, and of those only two or three were actually so brainless as to want to carry through after my diplomacy.