[Eli]

I had an epiphany.


I think it is time for the US to return to a strategy of isolationism. I really think the preemptive idea of striking against militant Islam was good in theory but in practice it is an ugly mess.

It is time for the US to say fuck it, and focus again on only what is going on within our own boarders. Let Europe and the French negotiate with Iran let the Iranians go nuclear, who gives a crap it will happen sooner or later anyway. Let Europe go down the path of appeasement let Europe try to meld their strident secular liberalism with radical militant Islam. The US should say "good luck with that hope it works out for ya guys". It is time for the US to take their ball and go home, it is time for us to go home clean our guns and pray that war some how will not come.


But I see an inevitability to all this, a world of dwindling energy resources and over population; two vastly different and opposing cultures militant Islam and western civilization. There is going to be war it is just a matter of when and where and it will consume the whole world. It has happened before and it is in the nature of man for it to happen again.

The US should pray for peace but prepare for war. The US should wait for the war to come to us. Then when the battle does finally come, let all hell break lose. No more worrys about how we look or Europe pissing on our good intentions. Just all out war, let it be a fight for our very lives, with no more politics or hand wringing, and may it end quickly.

[jawrat]

And what, pray tell, are we going to power this 'isolationist' policy you espouse? Don't get me wrong, I agree for the most part that we ougta be takin care of #1 first, but hey, we gotta transition over from fossil fuels here before we can do that.

oh well...

[holmes]

I agree 100%. We were a neutral country. when I first found out we werent as a kid I did not like it. America is supposed to be neutral in order to be free. true freedom that is. not the kind freedom that includes a leaf blower in every mcmansion. slaves in boxes type freedom, no. open space low pop density free yes.

[Eli]

Jawrat

You have pointed out our greatest weakness in any future conflict. Or I should say our future period.

We have to radically change our need and current use of fossil fuel. Without oil we would be like Germany was in the last great war, with plenty of tanks and airplanes but no fuel to power them.


This still gets us back to focusing primarily on the US alone. We should increase the strategic reserve. Fill every underground cavern we have with oil and dramatically cut back our current usage.


Nobody wants us to be the cop of the world any longer so we need to quit doing it. Withdraw, focus on domestic issues and maybe try to get along with our immediate neighbors. Let the rest of the world go to hell and we deal with it when they come knocking on our door.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')his still gets us back to focusing primarily on the US alone. We should increase the strategic reserve. Fill every underground cavern we have with oil and dramatically cut back our current usage.

[Eli]

We just take all the money we're spending on Iraq and protecting Taiwan and we could do it.

Oh yeah, and tell Israel they better get right with God because he is the only one who is going to protect them now.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'W')e just take all the money we're spending on Iraq and protecting Taiwan and we could do it.

Oh yeah, and tell Israel they better get right with God because he is the only one who is going to protect them now.

[sklump]

The rest of the world would generally love to see that.

But whose oil will you burn? And how will you get the megalomaniac expansionists' hands off the levers of power?

"Duck and Cover".

[Eli]

This is more of a "I have dream" thing than anything else. I do think that you could get a lot of the US to go along with it. America first has it's appeal and we would still buy all the oil anyone would sell us we just wouldn't bust our ass so much to offer protection for it.

The fact remains dealing with our energy problem now or later is a matter of national security. The sooner we start doing what needs to be done the better.
To do this it would just take the right political leader a Ross Perot type that does not go nuts in the end.

[jawrat]

You think that Joe Sixpack is gonna give a hoot? He's oblivious to reality my friend, along with a significant percentage of American sheeple. (see the '04 election for evidence of this nonsense)

Joe's gonna believe whatever faux news/rush/hannity/etc. tells him to believe and he'll defend it to the end cause he's a 'patriot'.

I don't see a solution to this whole shiatstorm comin down the pike, although I really wish I could...it gets depressing at times being awake.

[Eli]

faux news was the first to put Matt Simmons on the air.

And Joe six pack understands he is paying a hell of a lot for gas. And I think the average Joe is a patriot, but looks at Iraq and says "these savages don't deserve freedom, let them have another murderous dictator". And the average Joe also thinks Europe and the French can go screw themselves "let em rot".

I think there is a lot of popular support that could be had out there. Shut down the Mexican boarder, kick out the illegals. Stop sending our jobs to India and China. Concentrate on our own issues and quit trying to run the world. Say, the idea of preemptive war against terror was a good one but in practice it does not work, and also say the troops in Iraq should come home as soon as possible.


I think a good politician could get far with that kind of platform.

And I agree 100% about there not being a good solution to the shite storm.


My plan is pray for peace and plan for all out global war. That ain't the most cheery plan but that is the way I see things going down.


Come on Jesus, come on Jesus..... no seriously.

[lotrfan55345]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'S')hut down the Mexican boarder

[Turlox]

From Charles A Beard

"We are not to be Rome, nor Britain, we are to be America"

[I_Like_Plants]

Nationalist, Protectionist, Isolationist, that's the future. Right now neither political party can deliver that, but that's ok, the Whigs and the Bull Moosers and all those other forgotten parties died out and so can the ones we suffer under now. Some of the Greens are savvy to the real situation.

[jawrat]

one thing you should know...i grew up in manufacturing (born in 68) and i've watched as our manufacturing capacity(machinery, knowhow, etc) has been systematically looted from this country. i have a friend who does exactly that, finds machinery here packs it up and sends it to south and central america. they pay top $ for the machinery and we lose out on our ability to produce basic necessities. shoes? china. clothes? china, latin america, s.e. asia. computers? se asia. you get the picture. we don't really make much of anything here currently, and if we were to seal off our borders, we'd be in trouble pretty fast. we wouldn't have enough fuel to transport all of the food necessary to support our cities within six months, i'll wager.

in the end, we're riding the tiger.

[I_Like_Plants]

Sigh. I think you are right. Best we can hope for is a Steve Sailor ( http://www.isteve.com ) style breakup like the USSR went through.

[Eli]

I think that saying isolationism caused the great depression is over stated. The global depression that swept the world began in Europe first and did not have much influence on the US till years later because of our isolation.

Isolationism was a popular political idea prior to both world wars and especially as the US was coming out of the depression before WW2. It was not the cause of the depression, but came after, and a large portion of the US had no interest in getting involved in another war in Europe.

I believe the US is in deep deep trouble with a major recession likely and high energy cost already here. We are in for the next great depression. But this time it will be worse, having shipped all our manufacturing over seas we no longer make anything. Virtually everyone works in the service or leisure industry whether it is tourism, airlines or retail and restaurants.

When the US consumer finally gives up the ghost, millions will be out of work and we will still be buying all our goods from China. We ahave become a nation of middle men selling products and things that we either do not make or luxuries that are not needed when times are tight.

Globalization which has driven us from producer society to one of unbridled consumerism will now become the instrument of our downfall. The economic tiger which has driven all our recent growth will now turn and consume that which it has built.

Any job will be a good job and the cost of manual labor will be driven down, man power will be the only thing that will be available in abundance.
People in the US will long for a job that allows them to feed their family, they will wish they had 10 pounds of rice for making 1000 shoes.

The Auto and Airline industry which were already in dire straits before high oil, now post high oil are moribund, or at the very most will become shadows of their former selves. High energy costs are also strangling the average consumer who is the only person keeping the economy going. Without cheap energy the system is about to hit "control alt delete".

Refining my thinking, I believe that the US should become more isolationist and neutral in foreign policy, an abrupt turn economically to
isolationist stance would be catastrophic for the US.

[smiley]

I think the US should become less isolationist, especially where military issues are concerned. To me the US seems over-protectionist. The current military stance seems to be that the US military should be able to defend the US against any military threat at any time (that includes the long-awaited arrival of the Martians).

As a result you have about 120 military bases and a tremendous military apparatus that is draining your recourse.

Except for the direct costs there is a lot of indirect economic damage. The US has probably the best system of universities and research institutions in the world. However they are working more and more on exclusive contracts for defence or homeland security.

That is a huge waste of resources. You have all these smart people thinking up wonderful contraptions which end-up in a confidential file or an exorbitantly expensive and secret item like a stealth plane.

Just to name one example I came across recently. A US company patented an item which is used in prototypes for a new generation smart missiles. The same item could be used in the semicon industry. A licence or an export contract for semicon would yield that company several times the value of the military contract but since it is considered "vital for the protection of America" it cannot be exported. So actually the military is robbing the US consumer twice. First they use their tax money to buy expensive gadgets, and secondly they are robbing corporations of potential income and employment.

I think this is just one small example of why isolationism doesn't work. Isolationism in itself is not bad, but isolationism is always accompanied by paranoia and protectionism. And that will do any country in.

[knoppix2004]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'I') think it is time for the US to return to a strategy of isolationism. I really think the preemptive idea of striking against militant Islam was good in theory but in practice it is an ugly mess.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('knoppix2004', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'I') think it is time for the US to return to a strategy of isolationism. I really think the preemptive idea of striking against militant Islam was good in theory but in practice it is an ugly mess.