[PenultimateManStanding]

Bart suggested yesterday that doomerism is bad PR for the 'cause'. Perhaps it is but I'm not going to argue it. I think, however that political extremism or at least a strong ideological tinge is a turn-off to the public at large - left or right. I believe that Heinberg has discredited his message by showing such attitudes in his writings. Kunstler seems more even-handed about it to me. Of course we long timers here know that peakoil.com has a wide mix of political views. My guess is that the left is more prevalent here than the right, but maybe we can cast our votes to make it plainer.

[arocoun]

I'm something of a libertarian or anarchist. There are a lot of views, including my own, which simply don't fit into the traditional liberal-communist-big-government left to conservative-capitalist-small-gov't right scale. For such views, there should be an "other" option. Or perhaps a more multi-dimensional choice set? Like "authoritarian liberal," "libertarian conservative," "libertarian liberal," etc. Or just a list of the most popular political systems (like "Democrat," "Republican," "Socialist," etc.).

Or maybe just "other."

[PenultimateManStanding]

I know what you mean. The labels are not real clear in reality. But I couldn't see making an exhaustive list as an option. The traditional labels will have to do. This thread could be where you can clarify your ideas. I labeled myself consevative even though I agree with some of the liberal ideas. To me, a consevative is someone who opposes collectivist ideas. Socialist views are a kind of group authoritarianism to me. A conservative favors the social attitudes of the past overall and is reluctant to embrace radical changes for their own sake. A conservative regards 'progressivism' as progress to nihilism.

[k_semler]

I wasn't so clear on conservitive v. "far right". I'm quite sure compared so some members on this board, SEIG HEIL! Compared to others on this board, VIVA LA REVOLUCION! On the Policical Compass test, my results were a moderate authoritiarian conservitive. So I really have no idea where I stand right of center. All I know is I don't like the commie tactics of the left in this country, (or of the supposed "right" for that matter). Both parties have no balls, and the constitution is now meaningless except to criminals. I voted conservitive, because I associate "far right" with Hitler's Gestapo. Yes, I realise that is more of an emotional association than a logical association, but hey, I never claimed to be perfect.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', ' ') Both parties have no balls, and the constitution is now meaningless except to criminals. I voted conservitive, because I associate "far right" with Hitler's Gestapo.

[MD]

I chose conservative even though I am actually a moderate according to the profile test that has circulated through the board once or twice(both values less that .5 I think). I would have chosen "non-polical" except I am not convinced it's possible. "Non polical" also can imply "no opinion", and believe me I have very strong and well established opinions, some of them quite "extreme".
conservative will have to do then.

Focus on "conserve"

[bart]

Interesting idea, PMS.

One of the best articles I've seen on the subject of PO and polticis was Kurt Cobb's piece, "The Politics of Survivia."$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kurt Cobb', 'I')t is a sign of the times that a former energy analyst turned radical advocate for depaving the world would be quoted on the floor of the U. S. House of Representatives by a self-described "very conservative Republican" congressman while the congressman lectured the country about the dangers of world peak oil production. Just so you don't think this was a fluke, I give you exhibit number two: An investment banker who specializes in energy--a Bush supporter and former campaign advisor on energy--recently wrote a piece about the impending Saudi oil shock for Counterpunch, a left-wing, muckraking newsletter that is proud of its "radical attitude" and its freedom from corporate influence.

What we are witnessing is the collapse of the politics of left and right and the replacement of those politics with what I call the politics of survival. Those who come to understand the gravity of our energy situation quickly abandon their previous political views and instead focus pragmatically on how we can make a successful energy transition. They do so because they know the cost of failure is too high a price to pay for ideology. In the politics of survival ideology counts for almost nothing. Pragmatic plans count for everything.

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', ' ') Both parties have no balls, and the constitution is now meaningless except to criminals. I voted conservitive, because I associate "far right" with Hitler's Gestapo.

[PenultimateManStanding]

I think we're on the same page here, bart. However, one only has to read the posts in this forum to see that the old categories die hard. But it does seem that the old ideological categories are getting murkier all the time. Politics now seem to be a game of gathering as many single-issue voter groups as possible. Your idea that the voters are up for grab is interesting. The rise of the single-issue voter groups is probably related to the overall confusion. How many millions of people base their whole decision on the question of abortion rights? Soon I'll bet the parties are going to be trying to figure out how to capitalize on anger about gas prices.

[Barbara]

The left is split in two... as usual.

[Ludi]

Hmm, tough question. I probably look "far left" to most people, but I don't really fit in the left because I'm an anarchist, so I would prefer there to be no large governing bodies, whereas typically the left wants a large governing body. So, I can't really respond to the poll.

"None of the above."

[DerelictOverlord]

Not listed in your poll, Libertarian, and no, that doesn't mean right wing whacko. The Neo-cons and Neo-leftist both suck.

[johnmarkos]

See this poll here: we're a left-leaning (and anti-authoritarian) lot.

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic4595.html

[gnm]

HMPH - Where's Libertarian? Its only the largest 3rd party in the U.S.
-G

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('johnmarkos', 'S')ee this poll here: we're a left-leaning (and anti-authoritarian) lot.

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic4595.html

[johnmarkos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'N')ow as I went on to the later pages (I answered the questions this time to see what they were) I found the questions to be more straightforward. But the first page seemed to be written by the love, peace and granola crowd.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('johnmarkos', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'N')ow as I went on to the later pages (I answered the questions this time to see what they were) I found the questions to be more straightforward. But the first page seemed to be written by the love, peace and granola crowd.

[FairMaiden]

What does it matter? The reality is that each political party has its allegiance to big business - its just different sectors.

I wanted to chose "non-political" but as someone mentioned that implies we dont' have an opinion and I agree that I do.