[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'B')eautiful post. Very good explanation of the system, we hate the game of dodgeball but we are required to play, and we don't get to choose our side....

[deconstructionist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deconstructionist', '
')I will be the first to tell you that this war is bullshit, we should not be there, war in general is wrong, violence is wrong. But trust me the devaluation of currency as I described in Russia above will happen in the US as well if we don't defend the "petrodollar."

[I_Like_Plants]

I live here, was born here, and am not about to leave here. Rather than cut and run I will defend my country and my state from the immigrant invasion, and will hope and pray and WORK for my country to be self-sufficient so it does not need foreign wars. I pray for a modern day Henry Ford or Charles Lindburgh in office, and until then vote for the biggest right-wing mofos I can.

Where do you think you're going to go for more free gun laws? The US is the last hope for that freedom, unless you want to go to Africa or S. America where it's just a free for all, sure you're free to own a gun but there's nothing worth fighting for.

And in the comment about not getting to choose your side, I mean that I am a white American. That means, as you pointed out, I may admire Huga Chavez, but however much he's helping 'his' people, poor whites are not those people and I'd likely get the firing squad in his country no matter how much I admired him - I've got this white uniform on, you see.

The war sux and is stupid, but the situation with the petrodollar is a real one, I came to the conclusion the OP mentions 2 years ago, because oil is traded in petrodollars, we could experience a HARD step down if OPEC starts trading oil in say, Euros. Since my interest is in our downscaling being gradual and smooth, I have to be against this.

The OP's post is interesting in that, I didn't know the "petrodollar" was created that recently. Apparently it came into being in the early 70s which is pretty recent. The cabal running things on a world scale setting that up needs to hang, but meanwhile I'd rather see a gradual demand destruction and "swearing off of" foreign oil than a sudden dollar crash.

And frankly my concern about the Iraq war is for our boys from Iowa and Kentucky and the rest of red-state America, I want to see them get home safe and ASAP, and I don't want to see the war gear up into a true war against world Islam - there's more than one way to beat 'em and one way is to not give 'em anything to push against. Right now we're giving them something to push against. I honestly don't care how many Iraquis are wasted, I care about our guys and I care about the Israeli control over the US ending.

This can all be accomplished by a people's movement back to the land and the values of the land, and oil demand destruction so wars for foreign oil are no longer necessary, massive US support of Israel no longer necessary, a freer, less indebted US populace getting back more to the Jacksonian ideal, and the US becoming a constitutional republic again, with citizens, not subjects as presently.

So if you have a problem with that, fcuk you that's your problem.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deconstructionist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deconstructionist', '
')I will be the first to tell you that this war is bullshit, we should not be there, war in general is wrong, violence is wrong. But trust me the devaluation of currency as I described in Russia above will happen in the US as well if we don't defend the "petrodollar."

[deconstructionist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'I') live here, was born here, and am not about to leave here. Rather than cut and run I will defend my country and my state from the immigrant invasion, and will hope and pray and WORK for my country to be self-sufficient so it does not need foreign wars. I pray for a modern day Henry Ford or Charles Lindburgh in office, and until then vote for the biggest right-wing mofos I can.

Where do you think you're going to go for more free gun laws? The US is the last hope for that freedom, unless you want to go to Africa or S. America where it's just a free for all, sure you're free to own a gun but there's nothing worth fighting for.

And in the comment about not getting to choose your side, I mean that I am a white American. That means, as you pointed out, I may admire Huga Chavez, but however much he's helping 'his' people, poor whites are not those people and I'd likely get the firing squad in his country no matter how much I admired him - I've got this white uniform on, you see.

The war sux and is stupid, but the situation with the petrodollar is a real one, I came to the conclusion the OP mentions 2 years ago, because oil is traded in petrodollars, we could experience a HARD step down if OPEC starts trading oil in say, Euros. Since my interest is in our downscaling being gradual and smooth, I have to be against this.

The OP's post is interesting in that, I didn't know the "petrodollar" was created that recently. Apparently it came into being in the early 70s which is pretty recent. The cabal running things on a world scale setting that up needs to hang, but meanwhile I'd rather see a gradual demand destruction and "swearing off of" foreign oil than a sudden dollar crash.

And frankly my concern about the Iraq war is for our boys from Iowa and Kentucky and the rest of red-state America, I want to see them get home safe and ASAP, and I don't want to see the war gear up into a true war against world Islam - there's more than one way to beat 'em and one way is to not give 'em anything to push against. Right now we're giving them something to push against. I honestly don't care how many Iraquis are wasted, I care about our guys and I care about the Israeli control over the US ending.

This can all be accomplished by a people's movement back to the land and the values of the land, and oil demand destruction so wars for foreign oil are no longer necessary, massive US support of Israel no longer necessary, a freer, less indebted US populace getting back more to the Jacksonian ideal, and the US becoming a constitutional republic again, with citizens, not subjects as presently.

So if you have a problem with that, fcuk you that's your problem.

[Kingcoal]

Buying oil with Euros is easy. The price is denominated in dollars, so you simply take the dollar/Euro exchange rate and figure out how much you have to pay. At $72 per barrel, you'll need about 55 Euros to buy that barrel (at $1.30 per Euro.) Because of the cheap dollar, oil is expensive for Americans and not as expensive for countries with favorable exchange rates. Where is the harm in that? Where is the American conspiracy?

This issue has been debated ad infinitum on this site over the past year. Read up on those posts.

[deconstructionist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'B')uying oil with Euros is easy. The price is denominated in dollars, so you simply take the dollar/Euro exchange rate and figure out how much you have to pay. At $72 per barrel, you'll need about 55 Euros to buy that barrel (at $1.30 per Euro.) Because of the cheap dollar, oil is expensive for Americans and not as expensive for countries with favorable exchange rates. Where is the harm in that? Where is the American conspiracy?

This issue has been debated ad infinitum on this site over the past year. Read up on those posts.

[Kingcoal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deconstructionist', 'b')ecause those Euros must be traded for dollars before the oil can be purchased...

[deconstructionist]

the collapse of the dollar would hurt americans more than anyone else, no doubt. but as for how it hurts people other than americans--what's the death toll in iraq?

[alexis]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deconstructionist', 'b')ecause those Euros must be traded for dollars before the oil can be purchased...

[sklump]

As proud as you are of your currency, which has truly been dominant for the last half-century, nevertheless, it might be prudent to keep a hedge fund of, say, 10000 Euros somewhere nice and handy and dry.

You choose your side, but it's pretty clear to me that those with much more liquidity than any of us are building their lifeboats in Euros. When the moment is ripe, they will leave you holding a bag of worthless paper, like a shopping cart full of 1923 German marks printed on one side. At that point you will not be able to buy anything with them but more worthless currency.

Precious metals may be a hedge too, but opinion is varied.

Best of luck to all of us in these weirdhead times.

[I_Like_Plants]

Decon we'd probably get along fine! Heck it may not be obvious but I'm the first to think us whities should be willing to bring our "standard of living' WAYY down, I put the quotes since the idea of standard of living as it's measured is such a joke ..... someone who has a working small farm and shoots squirrels for dinner at times and poops in an outhouse but is a part of a stable community, is always fed OK and knows they will be fed OK, is considered to have a shit standard of living, while some urban hampster running in the wheel like crazy, making huge payments on a car and spending 2 hours a day commuting and has the microwave, vcr, dvd player, bigscreen, etc etc etc yadda yadda and never knows if their job will be there when they go to work is considered to have a good standard of living, which makes NO sense.

How did whites live say, 200 years ago? The vast majority of us were hardworking mofos. Look at the Amish, no slackers there. We really need to look at that example, or the example of Karala in India, as our example.

This endless hampster-wheel-running and making the 3rd world run one too to make all this STUFF, heck the creation of the 3rd world in the first place, this is all sick and wrong.

[deconstructionist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'D')econ we'd probably get along fine! Heck it may not be obvious but I'm the first to think us whities should be willing to bring our "standard of living' WAYY down, I put the quotes since the idea of standard of living as it's measured is such a joke ..... someone who has a working small farm and shoots squirrels for dinner at times and poops in an outhouse but is a part of a stable community, is always fed OK and knows they will be fed OK, is considered to have a shit standard of living, while some urban hampster running in the wheel like crazy, making huge payments on a car and spending 2 hours a day commuting and has the microwave, vcr, dvd player, bigscreen, etc etc etc yadda yadda and never knows if their job will be there when they go to work is considered to have a good standard of living, which makes NO sense.

How did whites live say, 200 years ago? The vast majority of us were hardworking mofos. Look at the Amish, no slackers there. We really need to look at that example, or the example of Karala in India, as our example.

This endless hampster-wheel-running and making the 3rd world run one too to make all this STUFF, heck the creation of the 3rd world in the first place, this is all sick and wrong.

[eastbay]

Interestingly, various polls suggest somewhere around 40 to 50% of Americans think it was and still is a sweet idea to continue the military occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan going indefinitely.

Maybe it's because I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, but I have yet to meet any of them. Seriously. Where are they anyhow? Friends and people I know from all points on the political spectrum, liberal, conservative, socialist and racial nationalists alike all are of a common opinion that this Stupid Oil War is a total waste.

War supporters certainly don't appear around this forum (too much)either. Maybe a poll on this topic right here would have interesting results.

[I_Like_Plants]

There's a HUGE number of what can only be called Christian Zionists in the US. In fact, as far as I can tell, with the exception of a few offshoots of Christianity, to be a Christian is to be a Zionist and this is what you're raised with and so you don't even question it. I would say that's why.

[Doly]

What the hell do you call a Christian Zionist?

[julianj]

Doly: George or Dick, I think.

[deconstructionist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'I')nterestingly, various polls suggest somewhere around 40 to 50% of Americans think it was and still is a sweet idea to continue the military occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan going indefinitely.

Maybe it's because I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, but I have yet to meet any of them. Seriously. Where are they anyhow? Friends and people I know from all points on the political spectrum, liberal, conservative, socialist and racial nationalists alike all are of a common opinion that this Stupid Oil War is a total waste.

War supporters certainly don't appear around this forum (too much)either. Maybe a poll on this topic right here would have interesting results.

[julianj]

Deconstructionist: I think you are utterly mistaken.

The war in Iraq has cost the US many times what it would have cost to buy oil on the open market, and will quite possibly bankrupt the US. Not to mention the many other negative consequences. The terrible costs, physical, moral, political and economic outweigh any "benefits" there might have been. Please have the courage of your convictions! One of the other negative costs is allowing China and Iran to position themselves ready to dump the dollar....

which segues nicely back on topic:

Does anybody know a US bookstore that ships cheaply to the UK? I've been following Clark's writing with great interest and I want this book but the amazon.com postage seemed a bit steep?

Plus, aren't any of you going to put a user review on amazon, the poor little book hasn't got any and its feeling lonely

[eastbay]

however, my point is that even people like me--non-violent, anti-war, anti-capitalist... i have a lot to lose--this war is somehow mind-bogglingly protecting my interests. it's just not so simple as "the war is wrong" or "the war is right." we may not support the war--but unless you're living on an intentional community and are totally self-sustaining, the war does support us...

Deconstructionist,

First, I enjoy reading your postings here. But I think you're reading the tarot cards wrong here. If the Stupid Oil War was actually securing a steady supply of inexpensive oil for the USA, then I would agree with you about the success of this madness. But it isn't. The cost has blossomed into a blooming insanity which needs to end, like yesterday.

The Iraqi patriots have grown in number and sophistication and will never accept any government stuffed down their throats at gunpoint by the USA. The current Iraqi government controls their desks within the safety of the Green Zone. The US controls the Green Zone itself and the patriots control most of the rest of Iraq, unless a line of US military is driving by.

Oil lines are blown up daily. The oil supply is unpredictable. As the US economy contracts in the coming months, the national will to keep this madness going will wane and then the US will wish it had Saddam back in power again.