[holmes]

I love being in a SECT. I love religion. I love following an elite eader. I love creating more programs every year that dont work. Yes I love status quo. I will drink the poison kool aid. I will jsut keeping going on the same path. FUND FEMA. THE PROGRAMS will save humanity!
I love killing the biome with never ending growth. I am part of SECT! Believe all you want. Label me. I like it.

When are all you great humans going to start goin on down to these death piles and start volunteering? Bring some condoms. Thats really waht every one needs. Tell em to stop humping and spewing out offspring. water has a hard time seeping into sprawl where there isnt any SOIL left! Keep doin what your doing. Its working great. Get em hooked to your hand outs. REBUILD!

[Barbara]

trespam,
when we joined this board, one and half years ago or more, we were no more than thirty or forty posters. Few more guests.
We were the educated, those who passed through a painful reading of many weeks into hard books and articles about geology, geopolitics, science, history and don't know what else.
So we sit here, discussing politely about Simmons theories and the perspectives of Ghawar. We felt like an elite, maybe an elite of crazy nuts, more likely an elite of people which learned about the future the hard way.

But the barrel was at $32.

Now the barrel is at $70 and things are warming up.

More and more people are joining the board everyday. Many of them are scared for the oil price and are looking for answers... Peak Oil provides an answer. We studied it BEFORE the price spike, they discovered it AFTER. This is a world of difference. I'm amazed, because this demonstrates things are going exactly as we foresaw more than one year ago: price soaring, people coming here. Remember? Surely you do.

So, we can kiss good-bye to our polite discussions, to peakoil.com being the last resort for people knowing a secret nobody else believes. This is how things go. This is how the Internet goes... we dreamed about thousands of people coming here, and now we are disappointed. We are contradicting ourselves trespam.

There are no more secluded islands for us peakoiler of the first hour. There are no more secrets to reveal. Everything is right in front of our eyes and thousands of people are reacting they way they like. There's no escape from this.

I was happy to see you here again. I miss you like I miss gg3, Licho, gogota and many others. But this board is still THIS board, our first resort, and even if we are witnessing "the revenge of the doomers" we shouldn't abandon it. Because there's no other place: all the world is in the same boat.

We foresaw it.

[holmes]

Yes I am in a CULT. The cult of common sense. My Mommy always told me to not build you house on a FLOODPLAIN! Better yet never build entire cities on the floodplains or on the banks of rivers, seas, and oceans.
near volcanoes. The "savage", "stupid Indians new this. cmon even a cult member like me who cannot think for himself knows this.
and she also told me to not spew out babies that I can not provide for on my own.

Now do you understand how overpopulated we are. we have spread out to areas humans have no place to be.
FEMA save me. Where is my check. These folks are moving into your and mine neiborhoods soon enough. Gonna take them in to your home you PURE compassionates? give em your job and food. be Jesus.

Barbara I am going to be polite to you. Your full of it. Ive known about po since 1990. So before u spout off about how intelligent u are and worldly. think before u do. I have more experience ON THE GROUND than u do in you entire lifecycle. Books are good for reading.

[Macsporan]

I agree with Trespam. This is not an analogy for PO. It is an example of overwhelming destruction in a very short time.

No society anywhere at anytime could have coped with the sudden violence that NO has experienced.

PO will take at least a generation to unfold, possibly two.

There will be time to adapt and with wise leadership and a modicum of community spirit we will pull through.

This is no time to gloat.

It is just as anti-social in its own way as the looting.

In an emergency situation until proper food distribution is restored people are entitled to help themselves to food and drink, but personally I feel sorry for some idiot wading through the corpse-bobbing waters carrying a sodden TV that will never work again.

However anyone shooting at rescue-workers or police should be shown no mercy.

This is a terrible cataclysm but it is not PO.

[bart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('barbara', 'B')ut this board is still THIS board, our first resort, and even if we are witnessing "the revenge of the doomers" we shouldn't abandon it. Because there's no other place: all the world is in the same boat.

[Ludi]

I find most of the meaningful optimism in the Planning forum, where people are actually doing something to help themselves and their communities. It's not all doomer survivalism in there, folks, you should check it out sometimes. People even post photos of their cute farm animals and pretty vegetable gardens!

[trespam]

Looked through the responses. A few comments:

1. The idea that "We foresaw it" is casandra thinking. "We" are the prophets? I'm not trying to be mean here, but it sounds to me as if many of the people who populate this board gain self-esteeem and importance by thinking that they are on the vanguard of something. Therefore, they must go through the data and news of the world and interpret in a way that fits their "vision."

2. Peak oil is real. The response of the world is not a given.

3. The world is probably in overshoot population wise. The adjustment is not known. The time over which it will rebalance, etc.

4. Humans cannot be compared to bacteria in dishes. The data that people bring to prove their worst-case scenarios just don't apply.

5. The view of human nature, the inhumanity of many on this board, is appalling. Montequest says he must hang with Jack because the times argue it. I disagree. I find views of people like Jack repugnant.

6. I think this board is populate, in some ways, but what I refer to as third tier casandras, wannabees, people would like to broadly-quoted authors, etc. Jack has "writings". Savinar and Montequest have "books." All of their writings are either (a) alarmist, (b) conspiracy ridden; and (c) self-important.

7. I visit peakoil.com at times because it is an important issue. But as one pointed out in this thread, there is so much garbage that it drags the site down. I don't have an answer to what I perceive to be a long-term shortcoming of this site. But personally, I find the site of little user any longer. Hence I spent months almost completely ignoring it.

8. No jack, even though retired, I'll not go to New Orleans. I'll donate money. And I'll not dance on their graves, using a category 4/5 hurricane to demonstrate anything about the peaking of world energy production.

9. I said a long time ago that the whole survivalist portion of this site should be cleaved off to a separate site. Why? Because survivalism is a topic that is a response to many crises, it doesn't belong here. It detracts. It brings people I find appalling misanthropic.

10. As the Buddha said long ago, life is suffering. Get over it. And get on with your lives. Peak oil is real. The response is not. Stop spending your time hanging around a car wreck on the side of the road, using it to prove your particular theory. Katrina is a car wreck. The guy who died when someone stole gas from his station a couple weeks ago. That's a car wreck. But please, people, shut down these idiots who hang around car wrecks, taking photographs of the blood. It was Jack who messaged me once all excited to talk about the die off with Montequest. He was thrilled with the idea of exploring how people would die off. Sorry folks. That's sick. Jack is hanging out by the car wreck.

And please note. This is not a flame. Don't even think it. This is well-founded analysis of the meaning of peakoil.com.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd please note. This is not a flame. Don't even think it. This is well-founded analysis of the meaning of peakoil.com.

[Chocky]

It seems to me Trespam that your primary interest in PO is using it as a platform for your own brand of literary mastrubation. I think what you really need is your own 'special' site, just for you.

[trespam]

1. I never said to shut anyone down. I've always said I'd like to see the survivalists folks cleaved off. But I'm not out to shut anyone down. I never said to shut them down. I'm expressing an opinion. I simply don't like them. Nor those like jack who enjoy the idea of people dying off. Because he's a "realist." I was not the one who originally set up a special posters section with "key posters" or whatever they were called, then hurredly backtracked when someone got mad and slapped the hand of the administrator. I always found that a dumb idea. A bit of thrashing.

2. It is an open forum Aaron. And I'll use it as I see fit. I spend my time more on economics blogs debating with the economists and those with energy concerns. It's time better spent. The time I use here I'll use to primarily complain about the doomers. Why? Because it is an open forum. So get used to it. You simply don't like my points because you are a doomer. I think it important for people new to this board to understand that not everyone buys into the doom and gloom scenario.

3. From a political and practical perspective, peak oil will not progress in the public broader sphere with the baggage of the doomers. It won't. That implies that peakoil.com has a limited usefulness. Fine. The people here have to accept it. It's sort of like a place one wanders in, looks around, learns a few things, and then finally decides--time to move on. There are people like me who visit back once again to act the gadfly. And peakoil.com provides a service. But I think people should use caution. We've got Montequest who believes there is a world financial conspiracy. I always wonder whether they are supposed to be Jewish. Funny, Stiglitz, the economist who has railed against the world financial community, who has been in the midst of them, says cleary THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY. Stiglitz is an honorable person. A nobel prize winner. I believe him. Not Montequests conspiracy theories. I agree with some of Montequests posts. But he's also obsessed with die off. So the real progress on peak oil will take place in other places. Peakoil.com will serve as a launching place, perhaps, for some people, but the doomers and conspiracy theorists and survivalists and people who like to post pictures of human entrails or whatever is their fancy simply will not allow this site to progress much beyond that. Lots of good posts. Lots of dedicated and concerned people. And a lot of noise. Less noise than yahoo. But it won't be able to go beyond that. Just get used to it. I'm a politically minded person as well as a practically minded one, and I think I am right on this.

4. To the comment that I want my own forum, please note that I've never called my blather "writings." I'm not peddling my book. There are so many good writings and books out there. So when someone offers up his "writings" I read "fucking self-important idiot". Now I know I'm not entirely correct. But there is an aspect to it. And yes I do act the obnoxious ass hole. I'm successful, I can pretty much do whatever I want, and at least within these forums, will throw it around. I've got a good enough track record of setting my mind to something, achieving it, and financially I don't have to worry about anything at this point, and I make that point sometimes because it counts for something. I've been correct more than wrong. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

5. I don't have any need to contribute much as Aaron would like at this point, and instead am making these particular points, because this place is like a fucking broken record. Don't you get it? It's like a guy off in his room masterbating over and over again. Finally I want to say to the guy: "get a life." Get out. Now I completely understand that I say this while typing on peakoil.com--meaning I'm one of the masterbators now. But I'm taking my masterbating time to make this particular point. Like a drunk who walks into the bar one day and says" Maybe I'm drinking too much." But my point about not needing to contribute is valid. There is nothing to contribute. Don't you get it. After you've analyzed all the data, there is nothing more to talk about. The taoist saying applies here: "He who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know." At some point, people need to realize that the jury is completely out on how industrial society will deal with energy depletion. The Kunstlers of the world are broken records, going on and on. Soon he will pass by the way side. I'd call him second tier (in my previous comment that the "authors" on this site are third tier). So some people like me have gone away. Instead, I use the opportunity to return now and then and let people now--there is more than what you see here.

6. Finally, the Breakfast Club is a puerile movie. I've been forced to watch it a couple times, but it's like reading an Ayn Rand novel or Tom Robbins: I spend a good part of the time wondering: Who the fuck can possibly read this and enjoy it?

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('trespam', ' ')I'm successful, I can pretty much do whatever I want, and at least within these forums, will throw it around. I've got a good enough track record of setting my mind to something, achieving it, and financially I don't have to worry about anything at this point, and I make that point sometimes because it counts for something. I've been correct more than wrong. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1'). I never said to shut anyone down. I've always said I'd like to see the survivalists folks cleaved off. But I'm not out to shut anyone down

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('trespam', '8'). No jack, even though retired, I'll not go to New Orleans. I'll donate money. And I'll not dance on their graves, using a category 4/5 hurricane to demonstrate anything about the peaking of world energy production.

[holmes]

Jack, They we all have had a hand in creating it. Just us younger folks (that are worth a dime, not many in my gen or after from what I see) have really had very little say in changing it. so we were born into this charade. The olders sit around "discussing" the horrors doing very little to actually change it and stop the horrible decline. they read thier books, pass judgement on others from within their sheltered suvs, air conditioned concrete stucco hellholes and "feel" there way along. It will never work. their plans always fail. their extraordinary knowledge and compassion actually is facade. thier compassioan leads to no change and increased despair. You knwo why? cuz its all BS. Theories that do not pertain to real world scenarios. They never address the KEY issue: overpopualtion, breeding ethics and culture. Its always worked around their lives. They will never allow change. It might pull them out of their cube of comfort.

katrina is like the other hellholes ive been on the ground with. S. america very similar. Haiti is just like it. fucking pile of bodies. 3rd world moving in. we need to throw piles of carcasses on their doorsteps.

[trespam]

Aaron: You are a funny one. You guys just can't stand to have someone pull the curtain back, to argue that this site has moderators who are largely (a) genocidal (b) conspiracy theorists and (c) survivalistic misanthropes.

Here. I'll emphasize. I'd LIKE to see the survivalists cleaved off. Duh. I said I'd LIKE it. I have likes dude. You don't understand that? On an open forum, I'm allowed to have "likes." And I've been consistent from the beginning. You are the one who started creating tiered, insider/outsider posters at one time. The experts I think you called it. Then you got your hand slapped. Correct? I have a right to want to rid the peak oil discussion from the doomers and survivalists. And the conspiracy theorists.

As far as Jack, to heck with him. I gave up on him when he got all excited about how people were going to die off. It's just plain weird if you ask me. Am I shrill? Heck. I'm having fun. And it's probably worth it to have at least someone posting something other than "gas went up 7 cents yesterday in my block." Wow, that's impressive stuff.

Here's what's interesting. As I'm debating this issue with people, as I'm looking for ways to do something, I run into the same argument: peak oil is full of conspiracy theorists, misanthropes, and doomers. And you know what? It's true. And it really is screwing up the ability of people who are concerned about this issue and want to get it into the public domain to make progress. Because along with the arguments for peak oil come conspiracy theorists who believe there is a kabal of financial manipulators (probably jewish, I suspect), racists who want to kill off the brown people, and the type of people who shoot the Chinese trick-or-treaters when the knock at the door.

Kunstler is a good example. The guy has no credibility at all. He took is basic nonsense argument for Y2K and cut-and-paste peak oil into it. He has a casandra complex. This does not argue against peak oil. I believe in it. But Kunslter is not an expert. And he has no, absolutely no credibility.

And as far as the quote. Sorry, still don't care for it. But I am glad you can spell. Thanks.

[EnviroEngr]

I pray for the flexibility of my own useable beliefs that once labeled doesn't mean always labeled. Could be that I am unrecoverable insofar as this is concerned. I shall have to put on the pyre my very own obsolescence should this be true. So foul and fair a day I have not seen.

But I must say that on my map, there are a lot of bridges out and there are numerous construction hazards and detours - lord knows what's not even marked. I don't call the map negative necessarily, although the information it conveys is somewhat unpalatable. I have learned to distinguish.

Perspective is a matter of wisdom; maintaining a somewhat detached, value-neutral frame of mind around qualitative characteristics of what one recognizes as hazards on the path is the antidote to both under- & over-reaction. Sharpness of mind in this environment isn't optional - it's quintessential. Using nomenclature to classify and/or charging the Limbic System as a routine matter of course, on the other hand, will likely produce more illusion than proper response since doing either will set blind spots right in the line of view. Better to take action only after knowing how to move without the hindrance of artifacts in the line of travel. No better time than now to know how to move. Not good or bad; just so.

Choices and acknowledgements, per se, inevitably bring with them various emotional responses which, in and of themselves, are rather ephemeral. The question is whether to immerse and identify with an affect or just watch it go by. The reflex to evaluate and judge such things upon recognition serves only to deepen the mystery and misdirect the reaction. Bad form.

[Macsporan]

Trespam, I agree with much of what you say but believe me there is no percentage in squabbling with the Moderators.

Although Doomers they are fundementally honourable men and they have provided this wonderful website for us to post our rants on.

This is a broad church and there is no point in trying to convert the Priests. They already know what they believe and there is much substance in what they say.

Who knows they might even be right, and we might be wrong.

So cool it and keep on posting your truth. There are many who support you but there is no need to give gratuitous offence to those without whom we would be homeless and cut adrift.

[k_semler]

@trespam:

There already is a survivalist website on the internet. Personally, I like it. There are many things to learn from this forum. It is usually the second site I visit. www.frugalsquirrels.com Merry Christmas.

[hotsacks]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', 'I') pray for the flexibility of my own useable beliefs that once labeled doesn't mean always labeled. Could be that I am unrecoverable insofar as this is concerned. I shall have to put on the pyre my very own obsolescence should this be true. So foul and fair a day I have not seen.

But I must say that on my map, there are a lot of bridges out and there are numerous construction hazards and detours - lord knows what's not even marked. I don't call the map negative necessarily, although the information it conveys is somewhat unpalatable. I have learned to distinguish.

Perspective is a matter of wisdom; maintaining a somewhat detached, value-neutral frame of mind around qualitative characteristics of what one recognizes as hazards on the path is the antidote to both under- & over-reaction. Sharpness of mind in this environment isn't optional - it's quintessential. Using nomenclature to classify and/or charging the Limbic System as a routine matter of course, on the other hand, will likely produce more illusion than proper response since doing either will set blind spots right in the line of view. Better to take action only after knowing how to move without the hindrance of artifacts in the line of travel. No better time than now to know how to move. Not good or bad; just so.

Choices and acknowledgements, per se, inevitably bring with them various emotional responses which, in and of themselves, are rather ephemeral. The question is whether to immerse and identify with an affect or just watch it go by. The reflex to evaluate and judge such things upon recognition serves only to deepen the mystery and misdirect the reaction. Bad form.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hotsacks', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', 'I') pray for the flexibility of my own useable beliefs that once labeled doesn't mean always labeled. Could be that I am unrecoverable insofar as this is concerned. I shall have to put on the pyre my very own obsolescence should this be true. So foul and fair a day I have not seen.

But I must say that on my map, there are a lot of bridges out and there are numerous construction hazards and detours - lord knows what's not even marked. I don't call the map negative necessarily, although the information it conveys is somewhat unpalatable. I have learned to distinguish.

Perspective is a matter of wisdom; maintaining a somewhat detached, value-neutral frame of mind around qualitative characteristics of what one recognizes as hazards on the path is the antidote to both under- & over-reaction. Sharpness of mind in this environment isn't optional - it's quintessential. Using nomenclature to classify and/or charging the Limbic System as a routine matter of course, on the other hand, will likely produce more illusion than proper response since doing either will set blind spots right in the line of view. Better to take action only after knowing how to move without the hindrance of artifacts in the line of travel. No better time than now to know how to move. Not good or bad; just so.

Choices and acknowledgements, per se, inevitably bring with them various emotional responses which, in and of themselves, are rather ephemeral. The question is whether to immerse and identify with an affect or just watch it go by. The reflex to evaluate and judge such things upon recognition serves only to deepen the mystery and misdirect the reaction. Bad form.