[trespam]

OK, looked this morning at the list of new posts. We've got Jack dancing on the grave of the unhappy souls who have lost their lives. A category 4/5 hurricane that strikes the coast, the equivalent of untold nuclear bombs, is used by jack to prove his thesis, a thesis that he uses as his mantra for peakoil.com. Others are happily enjoying the pain and misery in other ways.

Their thesis is simply a reflection of their warped view on the world. Crime and looting and theft are as old as humanity. Similarly, compassion and people working together to create stability. Yet the negativists--including most of the moderators--will focus in on the negative. It is a psychological reflection of them.

I'll continue to peek in here on occassion. But as one who has studied peak oil in depth, studied the biological issues (as raised in topics such as overshoot), has studied great looks at the "liberal project" such as John Gray--if you've not read him, you're uninformed--there really is little of value at this site, other than a collection of news articles and an occasional post. Go to other places, like:
http://www.energybulletin.net/news.php
http://mobjectivist.blogspot.com/
http://peake.blogspot.com/
http://peakenergy.blogspot.com/
http://www.theoildrum.com/
http://www.env-econ.net/

And James Hamilton, an economists at UCSD is also giving a hard look at peak oil (with the full support of the OilDrum, mentioned above--though they are often at odds).

These sites also have their share of negativism. But they are not populated and dominated with the sad unhappy souls that I find here. I dropped out of the participation in the site many months ago but will continue to look for something of interest and to point out the sad unhappy nature of most of the posts.

If you are interested in peak oil, I suggest using peak oil.com as an entry point. But unless you are one of the sad souls who loves to put salt into the wounds of others, you will soon tire of this place. Perhaps you like hanging out with negativists. They do hang together.

But I highly recommend avoiding this site other than--as I do--checking to see if just maybe there is a post of worth.

The odds are against it.

Sorry for the diversion. You may now get back to proving that a category 4/5 hurricane and the chaos that resulted is proof of all the negativism that the depressed souls and moderators of this site know is just around the corner.

The phrase "the greatest generation" was applied to those who lived through the depression and WWII. Now, I'm a little sick of that phrase. It's a little self-important. But there is some truth to it. Well, whatever truth there is in it, there is one thing I know: the greatest generation does not populate this site.

[JoeW]

Roger that, trespam. There are times when I look at some of the ridiculous posts here and say to myself, "Peakoil.com needs an enema!"

There are plenty of individuals on this website who I could easily picture saying things like, "Fools! I'll show them all!" and they are the individuals that tend to speak the loudest here, but the softer voices of moderation can still be heard from time to time.

[killJOY]

OK, if that's how you feel.


So why not, like, just go away?

[Jack]

Hi, Trespam! It's good to know that you follow my writings; there may be hope for you yet.

I note that New Orleans has devolved from a civilized first-world city to a Mad Max scenario in 72 hours. The thin patina of order is even thinner, even more fragile, than I had thought. Make no mistake - the same behavior patterns exist in other communities.

I'm quite positive this is the case.

[Permanently_Baffled]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')
I note that New Orleans has devolved from a civilized first-world city to a Mad Max scenario in 72 hours. The thin patina of order is even thinner, even more fragile, than I had thought. Make no mistake - the same behavior patterns exist in other communities.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Permanently_Baffled', 'A')pples and oranges ?

[trespam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', 'O')K, if that's how you feel.


So why not, like, just go away?

[Permanently_Baffled]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Permanently_Baffled', 'A')pples and oranges ?

[stu]

Who are we defining as the caring and the kind? Coastguards, National Guard, Police etc. They are all doing their job which they are paid to do, so their compassion is there provided their wages are as well. That's not to take anything away from them. They are doing a great job and anyone who says otherwise needs to be dumped in NO. I'm not saying these people are heartless bastards who are paid to care, but in an environment of declining energy and economic activity then I'm sure that they wouldn't do this sort of thing for free all of the time.

If the caring and the kind are family, friends or just strangers who are doing a good deed to look after the suffering, then of course this care requires the use of their own resources and energy which costs them as well. In an environment of diminishing energy and economic activity these kind- hearted caring people would also become the ones who need help.

What is currently happening in New Orleans is perfectly representative of what happens when law and order doesn't exist and the poor are given free reign to roam the streets. If you are poor and the very infrastructure that you rely on to feed, clothe and provide you with shelter disappears then what good does teaming up with a bunch of people who have no basic knowledge of survivalism do. It's not like the poor in New Orleans are trained to deal with this kind of event. If that was the case they would have got out. Instead basic survival instinct has taken over and they are doing what they have to do to survive. It will be the same if the Peak hits by the end of the decade.

[stu]

To stop this thread from going off-topic.

What is the meaning of PO.com?

To provide a place where people can come and discuss PO related issues.

Is it a hangout for the doomers and gloomers?

Well that depends. Say you informed 1000 people of PO and showed them all the arguments for and against it, how many would would take the doomer side and how many would take the optimist side? It goes either one of two ways. Also consider that people who don't believe that PO is a threat are less likely to discuss it as they have already convinced themselves that everything is fine and there is no need to worry.

As for all the mods being doomers? Maybe it's a fair representation of the membership in general. Either way that question is best directed at Aaron or Dan.

[bobaloo]

Funny, some of us think the mods are optimists...

[stu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobaloo', 'F')unny, some of us think the mods are optimists...

[Aaron]

Landers, Moderates & Doomers

[bobaloo]

It's just like the old liberal-conservative spectrum, it just depends on where you're looking from. Some people think Bill Clinton is a flaming liberal, from other's perspectives he's a repressive Nazi.

From my perspective, Specop may be just a tiny little bit too pessimistic, but I'm not absolutely sure...

[eric_b]

So what's your problem?

Perhaps this site is a little negative. What of it?

It provides a badly needed outlet for this point of view. If you don't like it, leave.

I think most people here freely admit they are doomers. At least there's no hidden agenda.

This world's a hard and heavy place. Always has been. Let's not pretend we live in some
sort of Disney land and everything is going to be peachy-keen once PO sets in. The age
of cheap oil has insulated us from many harsh realities. They will likely once again
be coming to fore as the party winds down.

There are many other 'issues' facing humanity other than PO. We've got a severe overpopulation
problem, IMO. A trashed and dying planet and environment. Possible global warming. Loss
of arable land and soil coupled with declining resources means we may soon have problems
just feeding people. And despite all these looming problems nothing is being done. If
anything the doomer case is being understated. And even if it does turn out to be
extreme it may still prove useful in finally motivating people to change.

There are good reasons to be negative. You're a fool is you're not willing to admit the
course we are currently on may lead to disaster.

Besides, Jack's posts must have hit a nerve or you wouldn't have bothered to start this topic.
Perhaps there's more truth to them then you're willing to admit?

[bart]

I'm afraid I have to agree with trespam. I don't send people to peakoil.com anymore.

I think the problem lies in the nature of online discussion forums. Discussion forums are not a good place for carefully considered thought, based on knowledge. The medium favors people who have a lot of time on their hands, are verbal and have strong opinions that aren't necessarily well founded.

Gresham's Law -- the good stuff gets buried.

Another problem is that Peak Oil with all its implications is a complex subject, spiked with animal fear. In such situations, people lock onto a simplified picture. It doesn't matter whether the picture is accurate or realistic; at least it is a worldview that explains things and tells you what to do, allaying anxiety in an uncertain situation.

So, yeah, it's better to look elsewhere for answers. Books, classes, some of the more structured websites. Subjects like permaculture, Do It Yourself, ecology, history, survival classes and engineering are good. There's lots to learn about. It's much better than going round and round about the same old half-understood issues.

Still and all, peakoil.com has been much better than all the other discussion forums I've participated in. There IS good stuff being posted; the news items are fresh; commentary is interesting. The site is well designed and I appreciate the work of Aaron, the moderators, etc.

I'm not sure what could be done to help peakoil.com move forward.

[holmes]

There is only ONE path now. We chose a DEATH march. What are you an elite or something? There will be more and more carcasses piled onto the heap. Is there any other way? there was. The monkeys chose it. I sure as shit did not choose this. Humans are dying in piles across the oceans for our cappucinnos and fairy tale life styles. Dont like the blood splashed on your robes and crown? leave. I have hope. However with humans that dont like to talk about real issues and have a hard time communicating about these "oh the horror" topics, hope get smashed. I like po.com.
and we dont need everyone here- overopulation kills. More despair will ensue. I hate this continual cycle of never ending dysfunction. More programs eacha nd every fucking year that never work. they contuinue to create more despair and more "industries" to make profits. we are now goin to rebuild the south...again and again. they will continue to overbreed and fester ands die. help us all.

[bart]

I see some signs of sect-like behavior among the doomers.

Belief that one's group has the Secret, and the rest of humanity is ignorant fools.

Self-perpetuating hysteria. People compete to see who can come up with the most extreme views.

A rigid worldview. Dissenters are attacked or expelled. "Love it or leave it."

Apocalyptic visions -- the end of civilzation, anarchy, multiple catastrophes.

Rationalizations for immoral or amoral behavior.

A distancing from everyday people. Spending more and more time with a closely knit group that reinforces the belief system.

A distancing from alternate sources of information. Gradually the world of reality is left behind and one lives in a group-created world.

An obsession with guns on the part of some people (a very bad sign)

Please think twice before signing up for a sect. They give a temporary high when one feels part of an elite, but long term they're bad news.

[Jack]

So, Trespam, how's retirement going? Well, I hope? It's great that you're spending time reading - my writings, among other things.

You mention the folks in New Orleans. It occurs to me that a smart, well-read fellow like yourself...one who advocates helping his fellow man...one who is retired...could make a statement by going to one of the affected areas and volunteering. You could do far more than donating a few bucks - you could make a difference!

Go ahead, Trespam. Show us what a compassionate fellow does.

[rostov]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('trespam', 'A')nd I'm not the one {subjective omitted} to compare a category 3/4 hurricane to peak oil.