[aldente]

When looking around and focusing on the "un-failable and essentially arrogant attitude" that a lot of our co-humans wonder around in this world, it seems that there are positive side effects to PO. Namely taking a lot of them down their high horse backs.

A couple of days ago a poster from Queensland, Australia posted the following, and I fully agree:

As to your thoughts about young middle class americans (and probably most westerners) seeing depression as the end of society/civilization, I think you are actually on target. For much of the west true lack of wealth has not occurred amongst the middle and higher classes for 30+ years. There are poor people but the middle class has for 30 years and even more so in the last 10-15 has had almost no problem buying a lot of consumerist 'stuff'. A close friend who is younger than myself honestly has no idea what want is. Want a horse Dad purchases a horse stud and the girls get a bunch of em. Turn 17 and new sporty car is sitting in the 6 car garage. Need new computer, $3000 gets paid up. Go home to visit for a weekend and drive back with several thousand dollars of designer clothes of which less than half is ever worn. The thought that no safety net may exist to hold them up with just a phone call is not even understood. To these people long term loss of wealth is a disaster. The inability to buy a new Gizmo is horrible, the possible requirement to lose cable is really bad and being forced to wear warm clothing indoors in winter is hard to fathom.

[seldom_seen]

I flipped on the Television this evening and watched a little bit of the NBC show "Las Vegas." Part of the show included one of the "super smart, super good looking" casino babes who had her cousin come visit. He was Amish. Naturally, the cast of Las Vegas is smart, good looking, sophisticated and intelligent.

The Amish guy, of course, was portrayed as some ignorant, backward country yokel who couldn't even zip up his pants.

Now let's look at the reality of the situation.

From what I've read, Las Vegas is literally out of water. The explosive growth of that region will be met by an equally explosive implosion as the economy can no longer generate excess wealth (energy) to afford a massive gambling and entertainment culture. The combination of oil and water depletion will literally strangle that city. A mirage in the desert.

Meanwhile the Amish, while tending to their horses or plowing the fields for another season, will obviously be having the last laugh.

peak oil will be a humbling experience for many.

[hull3551]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', '.')..the thought that no safety net may exist to hold them up with just a phone call is not even understood. To these people long term loss of wealth is a disaster. The inability to buy a new Gizmo is horrible, the possible requirement to lose cable is really bad and being forced to wear warm clothing indoors in winter is hard to fathom.

[RiverRat]

My philosophy is to live BELOW your means. I often get ridiculed for this mindset. I’ve been called a tight-a**, cheap skate and the likes.

I’ve only once owned a new car (which I drove for 11 years and put over 270,000 miles on). I have no credit card debt. I don’t rape the equity in my home (built with ‘sweat equity). I save as much as economically feasible. I never buy retail and limit discretionary spending (as much as the wife allows).

I was a real estate appraiser for a few years before I took a desk job in the same field. Let me tell you … the home as an ATM machine… is a scary reality.

Need a new bass boat … refi
Need to go to Disney World … refi
Need a 52 in plasma TV … refi

It never ends

I’ve seen property worth as much as the 2 cars, ATV and Bass Boat sitting outside. There are some really screwed up people with their priorities out of whack.

The 0.4 % US saving rate is criminal and an abomination of our ‘fast food – instant gratification’ society. In our never ending quest for consumption, we have managed to leverage our futures to the whims of institutional ‘loan sharks’.

The scary thing is … with consumer spending making up 2/3 of the US economy … it becomes necessary and is legitimized all the way up the ladder.

[heyhoser]

I don't know anyone personally in my age group who is arrogant when it comes to their lifestyle. Out of high school, out of college, we're dying here, no money, no jobs (I had to move 300 miles from my hometown to find one in my field), harrased by the 'system' in so many ways.
It friggin' blows.

So, anyway, not all Americans are rich a-holes, not even most of 'em.

[NevadaGhosts]

I see the exact opposite. Many American college students are spoiled, arrogant little brats, who have mommy and daddy pay for everything. They drive around in their $30,000 SUV's. Blab all day on their cell phones during peak time. Dress smartly. Have expensive laptop computers. Eat out all the time. All paid for by mommy and daddy. Then after they graduate, many cannot find jobs, so 60% of all college graduates move back in with mommy and daddy to leech more money so they can maintain their 'lifestyle'.

[spudbuddy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') see the exact opposite. Many American college students are spoiled, arrogant little brats, who have mommy and daddy pay for everything. They drive around in their $30,000 SUV's. Blab all day on their cell phones during peak time. Dress smartly. Have expensive laptop computers. Eat out all the time. All paid for by mommy and daddy. Then after they graduate, many cannot find jobs, so 60% of all college graduates move back in with mommy and daddy to leech more money so they can maintain their 'lifestyle'

[EdF]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', '.')..
The last generation that could actually work their way through college were the tweeners....too young for WW2 and just preceding the boomers...they were all out in the work force by the late 50's.
...

[GoIllini]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', 'T')he last generation that could actually work their way through college were the tweeners....too young for WW2 and just preceding the boomers...they were all out in the work force by the late 50's.

[MD]

I really don't want my kids living here post college. I have tried to teach them to be self reliant and traditionally conservative. Stay out of debt, don't live beyond your means, work hard, be community minded, etc. Hopefully they will be able to stay afloat.

If they can't though, they will be here. We are 100% debt free, well employed, and drive 10 year old but well maintained cars. We can afford the extended family, for now.

[I_Like_Plants]

For millions of American kids, family is looking "forward" to a night going to bed hungry, and at the last minute, that afternoon, they get some yard work and earn like $5, enough for bread and a doz eggs so their family goes to bed with something in their stomach. School means looking down at the ground a lot, both to find stuff dropped that you can't afford (pens and pencils) and also to keep from being beaten to death for Walking While White. Whole catagories of work kept out of your reach because you're "non-minority" and most of the hope of going to college, no matter how smart you are. You learn to live on say $350 a month, and feel rich when your pay goes up to 20% over min. wage. Neighborhood, all stores and businesses, gov't and school system even college owned and operated by those of a more privelaged race and operated for them, not for you.

This is reality for millions of American kids.

When the shit hits the fan and there's enough food around to feed 20% of the population and 80% of the population is more privelaged races that have been stomping on this kid since they can remember, you hand this kid a rifle and what do you think is going to happen?

Problem solved

I don't worry too much about my country. Bring it on.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NevadaGhosts', 'I') see the exact opposite. Many American college students are spoiled, arrogant little brats, who have mommy and daddy pay for everything. They drive around in their $30,000 SUV's. Blab all day on their cell phones during peak time. Dress smartly. Have expensive laptop computers. Eat out all the time. All paid for by mommy and daddy. Then after they graduate, many cannot find jobs, so 60% of all college graduates move back in with mommy and daddy to leech more money so they can maintain their 'lifestyle'.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('spudbuddy', '
')The last generation that could actually work their way through college were the tweeners....too young for WW2 and just preceding the boomers...they were all out in the work force by the late 50's.

[jmacdaddio]

Say what you will about the X Generation of which I am a member, but I'm amazed at the materialism and sense of entitlement in the Y generation. I find it hard to believe that a 23 yr old university grad can afford a BMW M3 or the cell phone that he's constantly on. When I finished school it was more or less assumed that everyone was going to struggle for a few years, whether saving money while living in mom's basement or sharing a dirty apartment with 7 roommates. New grads now expect a luxury apartment and a BMW M3 handed to them, along with an iPod, cell phone, etc. If it's not handed to them, that's where credit cards come in.

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jmacdaddio', 'S')ay what you will about the X Generation of which I am a member, but I'm amazed at the materialism and sense of entitlement in the Y generation. I find it hard to believe that a 23 yr old university grad can afford a BMW M3 or the cell phone that he's constantly on. When I finished school it was more or less assumed that everyone was going to struggle for a few years, whether saving money while living in mom's basement or sharing a dirty apartment with 7 roommates. New grads now expect a luxury apartment and a BMW M3 handed to them, along with an iPod, cell phone, etc. If it's not handed to them, that's where credit cards come in.

[advancedatheist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', 'W')hen looking around and focusing on the "un-failable and essentially arrogant attitude" that a lot of our co-humans wonder around in this world, it seems that there are positive side effects to PO. Namely taking a lot of them down their high horse backs.

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jmacdaddio', ' ')New grads now expect a luxury apartment and a BMW M3 handed to them, along with an iPod, cell phone, etc. If it's not handed to them, that's where credit cards come in.

[jmacdaddio]

Whenever recent homebuyers beam with pride over "owning" property, I remind them that if you "own" and you have a mortgage, you're "renting" someone else's money. Nobody owns unless it's paid for. True, you can paint the walls whatever color you like but I'm not jumping into the bubble just to paint my walls navy blue.

[wilburke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('heyhoser', 'I') don't know anyone personally in my age group who is arrogant when it comes to their lifestyle. Out of high school, out of college, we're dying here, no money, no jobs (I had to move 300 miles from my hometown to find one in my field), harrased by the 'system' in so many ways.
It friggin' blows.

So, anyway, not all Americans are rich a-holes, not even most of 'em.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', 'I')n California there is this notion that if you "own" you are on an elevated level in society (as compared to renting a home). These young home owners will live through reality once the realize that the will not "own" for another 30 years and that renting from a landlord or mortgaging from a bank is not all that different with the only exception that the true renter can walk away from the property while the "owner" is stuck in that "lead on his leg"-mortgage. It is astonishing how far true monetary value can be disconnected from illusionary value just because it "hits home" literally and what manipulations are possible on a real estate market...