"How did these monkeys get like this?"
I posit that it's not the "evil in men's hearts" that's ultimately responsible for the evil which transpires.
It's apathy to this evil...
Hitler isn't responsible for his rise to power, and subsequent evils, it's the people of Germany who allowed this evil to rise and flourish unchecked which fostered the evil escapades of Hitler.
Fear... ignorance... whatever.
It's said that people get the leadership they deserve.
To the vast majority who just walk on by the injured man on the road I say...
"Thanks for nothing..."
PeakOil is You
The Human Condition
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The Human Condition
by Aaron » Wed 08 Sep 2004, 09:29:01
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.
Hazel Henderson
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Re: The Human Condition
by Devil » Wed 08 Sep 2004, 10:27:41
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')Hitler isn't responsible for his rise to power, and subsequent evils, it's the people of Germany who allowed this evil to rise and flourish unchecked which fostered the evil escapades of Hitler.
Fear... ignorance... whatever.
It's said that people get the leadership they deserve.
')Hitler isn't responsible for his rise to power, and subsequent evils, it's the people of Germany who allowed this evil to rise and flourish unchecked which fostered the evil escapades of Hitler.
Fear... ignorance... whatever.
It's said that people get the leadership they deserve.
Are you saying the leadership of all our respective countries is there because of fear, ignorance, whatever and not on the merits of the leaders? If so, I think I would agree with you, at least for the majority of countries, including ALL the ones that hit the headlines regularly.
A good leader leads by example of his ideals and not by showing what he sees as bad in others and least of all by aggression, whether it be verbal or physical. The archetype of a good leader trod the stony paths of Galilee some 2000 years ago. He was not a namby-pamby, meek and mild. He was the one who dared challenge the establishment, but he led others into taking up his ideals. Politicians don't lead, they push their electors into whatever they think fit, from behind. whether it be a war or a tax cut.
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by Aaron » Wed 08 Sep 2004, 10:31:40
What I'm saying is that in WWII, what the allied forces did, is what the German people should have done in the first place.
Made the sacrifices necessary to remove a dangerous and evil party from power.
Whatever the cost.
It's not the evil tyranny of despots which is the real problem, rather the common man's acceptance of it.
Made the sacrifices necessary to remove a dangerous and evil party from power.
Whatever the cost.
It's not the evil tyranny of despots which is the real problem, rather the common man's acceptance of it.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.
Hazel Henderson
Hazel Henderson
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Aaron - Resting in Peace
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by trespam » Wed 08 Sep 2004, 10:34:10
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'W')hat I'm saying is that in WWII, what the allied forces did, is what the German people should have done in the first place.
Made the sacrifices necessary to remove a dangerous and evil party from power.
Whatever the cost.
It's not the evil tyranny of despots which is the real problem, rather the common man's acceptance of it.
Made the sacrifices necessary to remove a dangerous and evil party from power.
Whatever the cost.
It's not the evil tyranny of despots which is the real problem, rather the common man's acceptance of it.
Yeah. And I like the arguments that if the Iraqis really wanted to get rid of Saddam, they would have sacrificed a few of themselves, risen up, and done it. They could have. It's called self-reliance. Unfortunately, in the case of Iraq, Bush wanted a government funded and managed program to do it. These socialist types like Bush will never learn.
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by StayOnTarget » Wed 08 Sep 2004, 14:11:14
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat I'm saying is that in WWII, what the allied forces did, is what the German people should have done in the first place.
Made the sacrifices necessary to remove a dangerous and evil party from power.
Whatever the cost.
It's not the evil tyranny of despots which is the real problem, rather the common man's acceptance of it.
Made the sacrifices necessary to remove a dangerous and evil party from power.
Whatever the cost.
It's not the evil tyranny of despots which is the real problem, rather the common man's acceptance of it.
I'm certainly no apologist for the Germans but I think the issue is much more complex than this and that hind sight is 20/20. Hitler rose to power with the direct aid of the elites of Germany. He was seen as an economically stabalizing force by the bankers and other institutions of concentrated power. His support from the people came from disillusioned verterans, the middle class that saw their wealth evaporate during the period of hyper inflation, and the unemployed poor.
Fear is the tool of choice for the totalitarian. Fear motivates more than profit. Threats, real or imagined are used to create an atmosphere within which critical thinking is removed from the social and political landscape. People are willing to trade away their rights for a sense of security. Hitler used fear and appealed to peoples nationalism, prejudice, and ironically, their ideals of christian morality to establish the 3rd Reich. Does this sound eerily familiar.
As for the Iraqis rising up to topple Sadam, they did after the first Gulf War at the behest of Bush Sr. They were slaughtered while the coalition stood by and watched, while the coalition allowed Sadam to fly attack helicopters against them. It begs the question, were we ever interested in 'freeing' the Iraqi people? To that end I highly recommend the latest Harpers. There is a fascinating article on the plundering of Iraq.
Critical thinking and sober analysis is not the business of mass media outlets in the USA. Ultimately they serve the bottom line of their corporate masters.
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by cthulhu » Wed 08 Sep 2004, 18:30:57
Since the Good Word has cropped up, let us turn to it and see what it can teach us.
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. John 8:7
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Matthew 7:3
Not that I believe in evil. It appears to be an excuse; “The devil made me do it”, “I’m just bad”, “I’m a bitch”, “I’m a badass”, ect., or as a reason why one should withhold their forbearance, understanding and compassion.
She told me herself that she had no morality – and I thought she had, like myself, a more severe morality than anybody.
-- Nietzsche
What are some of the points Vonnegut makes about the life of Céline:
1. He was a doctor who chose to serve the poor, and often received no payments for his services.
2. He fought for France and was wounded in the First World War.
3. He was a writer of brilliance.
4. He was an unrepentant Nazi sympathiser.
5. A few days before he died he wrote: “I say that Israel is a real fatherland that welcomes its children home and my country is a shithouse...”
Now, although Vonnegut doesn’t even try to make head or tail of these facts to understand the man (because it is beyond his abilities), I can. Can you?
I have sold all I possessed and given it to the poor. I have trod the streets without shelter or food, been scorned and abused, been an outcast, viewed a thunderstorm shivering under a tree, to be warmed by the morning Sun. Tell me, does that make me good, does that make me evil? Away with such childishness!
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient; all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. I Corinthians 6:12
The pleasure in this world, it has been said, outweighs the pain; or, at any rate, there is an even balance between the two. If the reader wishes to see shortly whether this statement is true, let him compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is engaged in eating the other.
- - Schopenhauer
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. John 8:7
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Matthew 7:3
Not that I believe in evil. It appears to be an excuse; “The devil made me do it”, “I’m just bad”, “I’m a bitch”, “I’m a badass”, ect., or as a reason why one should withhold their forbearance, understanding and compassion.
She told me herself that she had no morality – and I thought she had, like myself, a more severe morality than anybody.
-- Nietzsche
What are some of the points Vonnegut makes about the life of Céline:
1. He was a doctor who chose to serve the poor, and often received no payments for his services.
2. He fought for France and was wounded in the First World War.
3. He was a writer of brilliance.
4. He was an unrepentant Nazi sympathiser.
5. A few days before he died he wrote: “I say that Israel is a real fatherland that welcomes its children home and my country is a shithouse...”
Now, although Vonnegut doesn’t even try to make head or tail of these facts to understand the man (because it is beyond his abilities), I can. Can you?
I have sold all I possessed and given it to the poor. I have trod the streets without shelter or food, been scorned and abused, been an outcast, viewed a thunderstorm shivering under a tree, to be warmed by the morning Sun. Tell me, does that make me good, does that make me evil? Away with such childishness!
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient; all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. I Corinthians 6:12
The pleasure in this world, it has been said, outweighs the pain; or, at any rate, there is an even balance between the two. If the reader wishes to see shortly whether this statement is true, let him compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is engaged in eating the other.
- - Schopenhauer
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