[Caoimhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JoeW', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', ' ')Thermal masses are not insulators. They are usually stuccos, masonry, specialized cement, or masses of water.

[Caoimhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') think today's homes and buildings are too sealed off from the outside air. A lot of human illness is traceable to this. So there's a big trade-off right there for all that wonderful insulation.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I') think today's homes and buildings are too sealed off from the outside air. A lot of human illness is traceable to this. So there's a big trade-off right there for all that wonderful insulation.

[WisJim]

When we still had an electric water heater (came with the house and replaced it with LP gas when it started to leak) I installed a timer (cost about $40 I think, for the timer) to turn the water heater "on" at 5:30AM so I had water to get ready for work in the morning, "OFF" at 8AM, then "ON" again at 5PM and "OFF" at 8PM. If I need hot water at other times, I could manually turn on the water heater.

This could be an inexpensive way to reduce water heating cost if you have a fairly new electric water heater.

Now we do the same thing, but have an LP fired water heater with electronic ignition, so I can still use a timer to turn it off and on as needed. Next step is to install those solar water heating panels that are sitting stacked in the shed.

Jim

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

I am going to be replacing my fridge soon. I've heard that fridges that don't have freezers in them consume a lot less energy. anyone know or have any comments?

Peanut, I love your puppy. is it yours or just a picture you found?

I dislike wired in fire alarms because one of the first things that can and sometimes does cut out in a fire is your power supply. no power, no alarm, no surviving.

[OldSprocket]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'I') dislike wired in fire alarms because one of the first things that can and sometimes does cut out in a fire is your power supply. no power, no alarm, no surviving.

[strider3700]

I have tracked down a pump that uses 45 watts and will do the same job as my current 1hp pump. I will get the plumbing on it setup this weekend and provide some numbers. I'm currently hoping this will drop the energy usage for about $30/month to about $2/month giving me a 5 month payoff on grid power. The fact that it's feasible to run this pump off of battery power for outages and trickle charge those batteries through solar also makes this a great investment in my mind.

[RiverRat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'S')trider,I can't believe your usage. We use 210kwH per month on average. Now we have oil fired central heating but still. I have 2 kids and the washing machine does at least 6 washes a week. Microwave, electric oven etc. My wife does website design from home so the computer is on most of the time and its a P4 and they guzzle. All the lights are CFLs, our water is from a deep bore well so we have a pump to pump into a storage tank in the attic and we have a circulation pump for the heating system. We also have an electric shower.
Why is your pump on 24/7 if there is no demand for water?
Has somebody connected into your supply
You have some serious phantom loads going on there. A bill for 1100kwh per month would cost me over $220 here in Ireland.

[gg3]

Strider et. al., y'all are doing a great job trimming usage.


For most households, the biggest power users are: heating/cooling, followed by the fridge and the clothes dryer. Of these, heating/cooling can be dealt with via insulation etc., the fridge can be improved somewhat by fine-tuning (reflective layer between coils & cabinet, regularly vaccuuming dust from coils, etc.), and the clothes dryer can be done without in most cases (use clothes lines or drying racks, use the dryer only when you need to sanitize a load if someone's been sick, or when you need something dry immediately).


I got four of those Kill-A-Watt meters & gave three away to friends who are fellow geeks. (Eventually we're going to sell those on our website, and also offer them as premiums to clients who buy phone systems from us.)

I live in rental housing so my fridge came with the place and it's a truly obnoxious energy-hog. 323 watts while running; average 4.8 KWH/day. Part of the problem is it's large & crammed into a space where it gets almost no ventilation. Adding a PC-type fan (2 watts) and dryer-duct to force-ventilate the space behind the fridge reduced consumption to 4.4 KWH/day, saving of (extrapolated) 127 KWH/year. However what I'd rather do is replace this beast. That however will require dealing with property management...

The washer that came with the place is a conventional top-loader of 9 to 10 # capacity, uses 500- 800 watts while running, and total of 0.26 KWH/load. At 6 loads per month would be 1.56 KWH/month. This unit is presently only used for items that don't fit in the new one (below), which is rarely.

However this year I got a high-efficiency twin-tub (Danby DTT-420), 4 - 5# capacity, which uses 27 - 250 watts while running, total of 0.06 KWH/load, and at 12 loads/month works out to 0.72 KWH/month. This unit does all my washing except for occasional large items.

The dryer came with the place, is 220 volt, can't measure; but used rarely if ever (I switched over to indoor clothes lines which work fine). I have seen pictures of a micro clothes dryer that's sold in England (basically a scaled-down version of a conventional tumble-dryer) that uses 600 watts and holds about 2 - 3# of laundry (i.e. a pair of pants and a shirt, or a few pairs underwear & socks). This could be quite sufficient for those cases where one needs a few things dried immediately for whatever reason, or sanitized if someone is sick. It would basically serve as a backup to clothes lines.

The microwave (Emerson) uses 980 watts at full power, a typical cycle for nuking dinner is 0.2 KWH, and at 30 days/month this comes to 6 KWH/month. This unit handles most of my cooking tasks, i.e. I rarely have to use the electric stove/oven (220 volts, can't measure). This microwave uses 1 watt in idle mode (clock) and is easily unplugged when not in use.

The vaccuum cleaner (old Kenmore 2-speed) uses 500 watts on low speed (perfectly adequate for most cleaning) and 700 watts on high speed (rarely used); typical housecleaning cycle is 0.32 KWH, once per week, works out to 1.28 KWH/month.

My main computer (Apple laptop iBook G4) uses 20 watts while running and 2 watts on standby. This is typically on more than 12 hours/day.

My secondary computer (HP laptop ze-4600) uses 35 watts while running and 6 watts on standby. This is typically on 1-2 hours/day.

Both computers have about the same screen size and options.

Household PBX (yes, an office phone system at home; more about which below), Panasonic KXTDA-50 with KXTVS-125 voicemail: 27 watts, which works out to 19.2 KWH/month. (Panasonic has worked hard to reduce the energy consumption of its high-end PBX products, to about 25% of what it was in the previous generation of these systems.)

There's a bunch of network equipment plugged into power strips under the shelves it's mounted on; I'll need to put this stuff on an extension power strip to measure its usage.

The fan in the attic hatch uses 100 watts and is on at most 1-2 hours a day. The fan in the hall uses about 60 watts on "high" and is on at most 2-4 hours a week. The 6" desk fan is on at most an hour a day and uses about 17 watts. The 3" desk fan is on 4-5 hours a day and uses about 6 watts. When I come in after being in the field, and the house is hot, I'll turn on the 100-watt attic fan for an hour, and then turn it off and switch to a smaller desk fan to keep cool.

General strategy for cooling: use the bigger fans to get the temperature down to tolerable, and use the small ones pointed at me to keep cool. Most fans today are "generic" manufactured, and marketed at various drugstores, hardware stores, etc. under house brands. Taking off clothes helps a lot: if you can get by wearing underwear or shorts or a bathing suit or whatever at home, you'd be surprised how cool you feel regardless of the actual temperature.

TV: 5" diagonal B&W (Daytron "generic brand"), used a couple hours a year on average; the rating plate says 15 watts; with a quick test with a channel showing a baseball game, the meter shows 10 watts actual use. Zero on standby, it's an older type that turns completely off.

Radio: Baygen Freeplay (windup/solar/AC), when plugged in with its AC adaptor shows 0 watts when idle (0.01 amps) and 1 watt when playing at normal room volume. Typically used less than an hour a day.

There are a few other things that need to be measured e.g. clock-radio in bedroom; I'll get to these eventually and might end up replacing them or putting them on switches.

[strider3700]

Just an update to remind everyone to keep at it.

the bill for the last two months just came in
1990 kwh used in 59 days
1.41 kwh /hour used down from my all time high in winter of 2.26 kwh/hour and shaving another 5% off of my previous low of 1.49 kwh/hour

Thats lowered my bill from $187.43 for 57 days to $120.4 for 59 days (flat rate 6.050 cents/kwh) so thats just over $60/month which isn't half bad for an all electric house that I'm just getting started on making more efficient. This price doesn't include the other fees and tax which add $7.60/month this time. Every watt saved is also saving on not needing to pay those fees which have dropped from $30.77 on the first bill to $15.23 on the last.

The only real money spend was on replacing all bulbs with CF bulbs and that bit of insulation on the back of the fridge. I'd guess that cost me about $150 to do. The real savings have come from reduced usage.

I should be getting the pump switched over to my new one in the next week or so. That should show up on the bill in late september as a savings of about 1000 kwh I hope.

Add in the woodburner for this winter and I hope to get a $30+ fees/month bill in late september. That would be 1/3 of my starting usage and low enough to make alternative energy feasible.

[strider3700]

Ok more measurements.

My old 1 hp pump has been replaced by one that uses 42 watts continuous. Thats 1.008 kwh/day or 30 kwh/month which is $1.86/month that should save me about $28/month for a 4.5 month payback time.

I've also measured my whole house cooling system which consists of some open windows and a big box fan. On high it sucks down 155 watts on low it sucks down 92 watts. I use it on high about 3 hours a night so thats 2.8 cents/day or $0.84/month.

[actionreplay]

I went to dig up my last electricity bill to see what sort of KWH per month usage we had as a _starting_ point for energy conservation. Our monthly electricity usage from February to May was 80 KWH per month. That is not a typo.

It's a 2-bedroom flat, traditional Edinburgh tenement, half in he basement (ie underground on one side, but not on the other due to hill), heating and hot water are gased-fired. Cooker and hob are electric. We never use the oven though, not for energy conservation, it's just not part of our eating/cooking habits.

Gas usage is c. 10 UK pounds a month, even in February, as one hour of heating in the morning and one at night is sufficient. An additional hour or two at weekends perhaps. We're also not big hot water guzzlers as long showers are not our thing.

The next step is reduce that 80 KWH and 10 UK pounds gas bill (I have the meter readings for the gas so I can use those "units" as a rule of thumb - I have access to the gas meter to read it obviously).

First step: all lightbulbs to be replaced with energy efficient models when they blow. I keep a stock of spares for lightbulbs anyway as they _always_ blow when the shops are shut!

Defrost the freezer and fridge and look at putting foil on the back is next!

[agni]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('actionreplay', 'D')efrost the freezer and fridge and look at putting foil on the back is next!

[actionreplay]

see an earlier thread by, I think, babypeanut - re improving fridge energy efficiency.

[strider3700]

I posted this one awhile ago

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic9368.html


80 KWH/month is impressively low usage. even with the changes I've made to become more efficient I'm expecting to use 6 or 7 times that much. I'm guessing it's your use of gas that keeps your usage so low?

[actionreplay]

I guess yes - hot water and heating come from a gas-fired combi boiler (pressurised system, hot water on demand, European-style setup).

We don't use the electric oven (due to our eating habits, not a conscious decision - for reheating we use the microwave) - no TV (stereo system instead), water comes from mains (unfortunately nowhere to collect rainwater).

Gas usage is at c. 15 dollars a month, in the middle of winter. We do have a gas meter though so I am going to concentrate on lowering the monthly "unit" count by keeping track of the meter. I consider it normal to wear a sweater and slippers indoors in wintertime, so we don't have the heating on that much. We made it a "game" over the past few years to use it as little as possible, not because we were short of money but switching it on at weekends meant getting out of bed! So we discovered it wasn't necessary util we actually got up, for example!

Remember that Scotland does not get overly hot, cold or humid by US standards. Heating is needed in winter but even totally without we would not freeze. a/c is not needed. SO the climate is nice to us.

I stress that none of this is due to "virtuous energy conservation" on our part - I'm just pleasantly surprised. And realise how much of a power-guzzler a tv must be!

[whiteknight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('agni', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('actionreplay', 'D')efrost the freezer and fridge and look at putting foil on the back is next!

[strider3700]

the foil is insulating foil like those water heater insulating jackets. It comes in rolls about 2 feet wide by 15 feet long. Sort of like this stuff: http://tinyurl.com/8ju98

What you do is pull the coils out away from the back of the fridge a couple of inches. You then put the foil between the coils and the fridge, you want the heat from the coils to not get into the fridge. The foil is held in place with ducttape.

I also spaced the top of the coils out a couple of inches more then the bottom, this helps prevent the heat from rising from the bottom and warming the top coils as it goes up. yes putting the bottom out further then the top would be better but there was no flexibility down there to do it.

The goal is entirely about getting heat out of those coils and not putting it back into the fridge. Yes a fan would be even better but that requires power to run and I didn't happen to have one kicking around.

[whiteknight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', 'W')hat you do is pull the coils out away from the back of the fridge a couple of inches. You then put the foil between the coils and the fridge, you want the heat from the coils to not get into the fridge. The foil is held in place with ducttape.

[DoctorDoom]

I recently moved from an apartment to a small house. The house has a gas hot-water heater, heating, and a gas stove. Gas use is about $7 / month, which seems reasonable for my minimal usage (in the apartment, heat for hot water was included in the rent - I don't use much hot water because I shower at the gym every morning). The electric bill is a bit of a shock, though (no pun intended). It's $40, which is about 2x what I was paying in the apartment. So, how can this be?

Let's start will all my moveable appliances, the TV, computer, stereo, etc. These are all the same as in the apartment, and I use them about the same, too. Their standby power drain should be exactly the same.

Regarding major appliances, the house has a washer/dryer which I use about 1/week. These are brand-new and should be energy efficient. The apartment had older models for these appliances, again the usage was 1/week. Doesn't seem like they'd be a big drain but who knows. Dishwasher I also use 1/week, just as before, and again, it's newer than the one in the apartment. Refrigerator is larger and about 10 years old; the one in the apartment was maybe 20 years old. So, it's a possible culprit but how can I know?

Regarding incidental use such as lighting, well I rely on natural sunlight during the day and/or I like to go outside to read and such. At night, I pretty much leave things dark except for one room where a lamp with a 60-watt bulb runs during the evening hours. This is about the same as my habits at the apartment. On the rare occassions when I read at night there is a 300-watt lamp, again the same as I had in the apartment.

The kitchen as noted has a gas stove, instead of electric, so this should reduce my electricity usage. (Although I use the microwave a lot, but it's the exact same one I had in the apartment.)

There are obviously other things using electricity in the house, e.g. circuits associated with the water heater, smoke detectors, and such, but these would not seem to be big power hogs.

I have air conditioning in the new house, which I did not have in the apartment. However, I almost never use it. It was used maybe 12 hours in the last month. I suppose that could be the culprit, although I shudder to think what the power bill might be if I ran it every day, and I can't believe people in places like LA are paying $1000/month to air-condition their homes. So, this seems an unlikely culprit.

So, where's the electricity going? Can anyone tell me how I would go about checking things like the fridge? Right now I'm at about 1/3 baseline for gas, which makes sense given my frugal energy habits, but I'm about 99% of baseline for electricity, which makes no sense to me. Help!