[EnergySpin]

This was an interesting article in Daily Telegraph a few weeks ago (soorry if someone has posted it before). It concerned a radical design for sea transport cruising the seas relying on renewable energy technologies and massive storage. Apparently the company from Sweden is seriously thinking about developing. Anyway .. the link to the Telegraph Article is here
A picture of the ship is included cause it is beautiful (don't know if it is practical). Hopefully if we have any naval engineers in the forum they could contribute.

[boilingleadbath]

I'm no navel engineer/wave energy specialist, but it seems to me that the power you'll get from waves would be trivial compared to the power you'll need to move the ship. I mean, simply looking at the rendering gets the point across - those wee little ripples arn't going to move that great big ship.

Oh, and the artical got it wrong; the marien conservatives arn't worried about the animals they pick up, then drop off in the ballast water - they'r worried about the ecosystems those alien species are forced to invade.

[EnergySpin]

Apparently it uses sail+solar to move. The fins play the role of wings in planes. They contribute a lift kind of force. Anyway, the purpose of the post was to post a nice picture in the forum
Apparently the Japanese are working on similar systems (i.e. fin propulsion)
http://www.naoe.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp/eng/naoe1.htm

[EnergySpin]

Another design that has been proposed to help with sea transport is based on high-tech aerofoil-sails. New Scientist had an article here
Naval Architect had a recent editorial on windships which can be read: here
It seems that a reduction in fuel consumption by 50% OR an increase in speed by 10% is possible using technology available 1 1/2 years ago (operating costs would go up by 10% though)
The Orcelle was also covered in Naval Architect
4 months ago but with this design there are technical issues to be solved (basically electricity storage in fuel cells, hydrogen or flywheels)
In the non-renewable energy front, nuclear power is a proven technology in the military sector for both submersible and surface ships as you can read here

[Raxozanne]

That looks nice, where is the sun deck
No im sure it will come in handy once fuel is in short supply
It's not made out of plastic is it? (cos it looks a bit like it is)

Ignore me if you want Im in a funny mood

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', 'T')hat looks nice, where is the sun deck
No im sure it will come in handy once fuel is in short supply
It's not made out of plastic is it? (cos it looks a bit like it is)

Ignore me if you want Im in a funny mood

[seldom_seen]

That is a big boat. Seems like a good idea would be to start with a 50 or 100 foot boat rather than 820 feet.

Those sails look a little stiff. It looks like a big gust of wind would rip them off or tip the boat over before they had a chance to take down the sails.

I would prefer tried and true sailing ships. Lots of smaller boats versus fewer super-mega-tankers. There could be large fleets that move people and goods, where many people return to a seafaring way of life.

Here in the Puget Sound region the native tribes were based around a canoe culture. Almost everything happened on or around the water and the canoes. It was their road system throughout the region.

When whitey moved in he didn't take advantage of all the waterways here as the auto culture took hold. The ferry system is often in neglect, why new mega-highways and super intersections are being installed and upgraded. The water system is mainly used for recreation.

[oli]

The Swedes were recently having a brainstorming session, exploring inovative maritime propulsion methods. I'm not surprised one of the more fanciful WITH A DAMNED TO HELL ARTIST'S IMPRESSION designs were reprinted as "hey let's fill our quota of popcorn-science entertainment".

I'm sorry, awe-inspiringly bad ideas get me grumpy sometimes.

Any way, one of the other (perhaps slightly more interesting) ideas dealt with launching "kite"-like sails - that is, using the windpower somewhat higher up than sea-level.

I think I recall the number tossed around being about 17% reduction in fuel-usage, overall, projected for crossing the Atlantic with this.

Drawback naturally being a more uncertain time-of-arrival, and some variability in confidence.

In any event, I would think engineering boils down to making something work as reliable as possible, not as cheaply as possible.

[Novus]

I like the Idea of bringing back the grand tall ships of old.

[Caoimhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'T')hose sails look a little stiff. It looks like a big gust of wind would rip them off or tip the boat over before they had a chance to take down the sails.

[EnergySpin]

I tracked a paper from more than 20 years ago in Physics in Industry And Technology. Aerofoil designs ... and mastless sails will be the way to go. Even though nuclear transportation is a much better option for big critical payloads

[Omnitir]

Sky sail technology is the way to go.
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic5401.html

[emersonbiggins]

Remember, all the 'sustainable ships' in the world won't get the plastic goods from the port to your 'local' Wal-Mart, or, get you there either.

[bentstrider]

I guess hybrid propulsion technology is pretty damned old then.
I remember seeing many pictures of naval warships from the mid-1800s.
In addition to their tall sail masts, they also had steam paddlewheels, and steam props to move them through the Doldrum, wind-lacking areas.
I say we do the same thing today, except we place the high efficiency sails and Diesel engines on board, and keep the navigation/communications systems.

[Starvid]

There is only one kind of propulsion that is as good as todays fossil ships: nuclear reactors. The only thing that stopped civilian nukeships in the sixties were the low oil prices, and I don't think we will have that obstacle. The nukeship is no new technology, it has been used successfully in the militaries of the world for 50 years.

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'T')here is only one kind of propulsion that is as good as todays fossil ships: nuclear reactors. The only thing that stopped civilian nukeships in the sixties were the low oil prices, and I don't think we will have that obstacle. The nukeship is no new technology, it has been used successfully in the militaries of the world for 50 years.

[bentstrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '<')/div>
A 30MW reactor does not even refuelling till the ship is decomissioned, if I'm not mistaken. Look at the carriers or the Russian icebreakers. Nuke all the way[/quote]

Y'all can have your nuclear powered ships.
My bio-Diesel/Sailboat will accomodate me just fine.
Just don't crash into it and break it into a million pieces.
I'll go Chernobyl on yo' ass.
(Now think of Meatwad from Aqua Teen Hunger Force saying this in his voice.)

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'R')emember, all the 'sustainable ships' in the world won't get the plastic goods from the port to your 'local' Wal-Mart, or, get you there either.

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for nuke ships, sure, great. But post peak nuke, sail will be the way to go. Of course if we build our dependence on nuclear power/transportation, we are just setting ourselves up for Peak Nuke. Shouldn't we learn our lesson from PO? Sustainability is the way of the future.

[Omnitir]

I must have been listening to the doomers. They gave me the impression that uranium is a finite resource, which will only last a few short decades if consumption is raised in an attempt to meet some of the increasing energy demand.

But I agree with you about space. I imagine that if we can just survive another 3 to 5 decades (possibly much less) we will achieve sustainable space industrialism. Most people consider this science fiction and hence fail to take it into consideration. But the fact is we only have finite resources while we stay on Earth.