[Wildwell]

The predictions of impending doom are silly. A lot really depends on people's attitudes; if people are prepared to be flexible then I'm a lander. If they are not then I'm moderate. There’s no sign that the planet is running out of energy, we can harness more as required and ration problem areas. The 2, 3 car households and cheap frequent flyers are a problem, but this can be controlled through rationing until things get sorted out.

[Ghog]

Moderate

Even though we aren't really doing anything to prepare on a massive scale, I like to believe that there is some hope. More and more media outlets are discussing PO. Major oil companies are suggesting there will be energy 'issues'. Also we have books and internet sites gaining popularity as more become aware and take that first step in learning about PO. Does awareness lead to us solving all of our issues? Probably not, but at least it is somewhere to start. We still may not have enough time, hence why I am in the view of 'there will be problems'.

[Ibon]

Moderate. It will hurt first but we will make a transition when our backs are to the wall and we have no choice.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', '
')That question is :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Are YOU going to make it ?

[turmoil]

...and organic farms.

[RockHind]

Dogs and cats living together; mutant biker zombies; Reapers coming down the coast from Texas; nuclear war; Walmarts closing; shortages on ice cold cola, the panacea of the common man.

Doomer

[BastardSquad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', ':')!:

Doomer (of course).

Make up a list of 10 things that would ensure a successful transition ... things like, oh, I don't know ... getting rid of the personal automobile ... limiting the number of births, every person in the USA growing a garden, tear down every shopping mall, things like that. Now go on any other non-PO website, explain the PO reasons behind the recent fuel price rises and ask anyone, anyone at all, if they, personally, would be willing to commit to even ONE of the things on your list. If you find even one person who says "Yes, I'll do it for the good of humanity and the future !" before you get flamed to death, I'll eat my shorts.

If our problem was simply technical, if all it took was the mindful application of the technology now at our fingertips, used in a logical, efficient and sane manner, I would be the most optimistic of optimists ... I would make JD look like Darth Vader in comparison. But our problem isn't technology, or even oil depletion ... our problem is people ... more specifically, their very primate emotions ... greed, selfishness, narcissisim and (unjustified) pride.


It's an incurable, terminal disease. People don't understand, and they don't CARE that they don't understand. That's precisely why we are screwed.


And before I leave, let me tell you a little secret .... Doomer's are not REALLY Doomers ... we just never get asked the RIGHT question ... the question that everyone thinks about EVERY SINGLE DAY, but in spite of all the thousands of topics and tens of thousands of individual posts, I have NEVER seen anyone ask ....

That question is :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Are YOU going to make it ?

[trespam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'I')t's funny to me, in a deadly serious kinda way, how optimistic people are.

As my countrymen are dying right this moment, to obtain a dominant military footprint in the oil rich Middle East, I wonder how any of you can imagine that as oil becomes more scarce, we will avoid fighting over it.

It's what we do...

[Dukat_Reloaded]

I believe the world will be stuffed, but not totally doomed forever such as all life dying on earth. I do mean there is a ton of doom & gloom directly in front of us, but because that is in the future the majority can not see it yet. To those who think we are going to have a soft landing, I believe you are letting your material wealth and family influence your thinking. I would say most landers have a wife/husband and family with children. In these cases these people will be optimistic because they can't bare the thought of what will happen to their loved ones and will be impossible for them to look after their wife & children when doom & gloom come. Also alot of families are built on the presupposition that times will allways be good, they want to watch their children grow up and add extra extentions onto their house, and when peakoil comes, their dreams will be shattered so they are not really saying that they are a lander, but rather praying profusely and saying that they are landers in an attempt to convince other people to become landers as if in an attempt they can convince other people that may make the situation better. There is no way there will be a soft landing.

[Permanently_Baffled]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'I')t's funny to me, in a deadly serious kinda way, how optimistic people are.

As my countrymen are dying right this moment, to obtain a dominant military footprint in the oil rich Middle East, I wonder how any of you can imagine that as oil becomes more scarce, we will avoid fighting over it.
It's what we do...

[Aaron]

Well done folks...

Reasoned responses.

Me like...

Time frame is a valid argument, and this poll does not specify time line.

Fair enough.

And yes, I'm "handling" you...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')oshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

[Macsporan]

I believe its going to be an awful mess, like the Depression only worse.

There will be great suffering and turmoil. I may be killed. Democracy may be suspended or abolished...sorry, that's already happened.

But with the avoidance of serious fighting it should be possible to re-engineer society to a lower level of renewable energy patterns and a transport system based on electric rail and horseback.

We will be stuck in 1850 forever which may not sound like much fun, but its a whole lot better than being stuck in 750 forever.

On the positive side there will be a lot more fresh air and sunshine, community and family life, a slower pace and plenty of time to write smug little treatises on the need for a planned political economy.

I guess that makes me a moderate.

[CarlinsDarlin]

It depends on what day of the week you ask me. Like Pops, I am trying to prepare for a doomer scenario (minus the MBZ), but I am hopeful that after a period of incredibly rough transition, we'll come out better in the end. Does that make me a moderate? Probably... but...

The doomer in me shows up everytime I think of the problems besides peak oil that we have to deal with - problems that will make the already strained situation worse. Like population, global warming, nuclear war....
I don't have much hope at all when I focus on these things.

And kochevnik has hit the nail on the head. Looking at the big picture, I'm pretty much a doomer - but for my own personal situation, I'm shooting for moderate . We're going to do our best to make it.

So, I guess that makes me a doomer trying to be moderate?

K

[deconstructionist]

i voted moderate. when i first heard about PO a few years ago (thanks, matt, for scaring the shit out of me) my doomerosity level was like 47,000,000. Since then, I've done a fair amount of research, come to grips with things a bit, gotten somewhat more of a hold on my financial situation, considered alternative viewpoints, and settled somewhere in the middle of the road. this will be WAY more than a blip on the road map of human history, but i don't think we're going to see 5,000,000,000 dieoff. Although the new energy bill passed by the US is pushing me more towards the doomer side than in previous weeks.

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deconstructionist', 'A')lthough the new energy bill passed by the US is pushing me more towards the doomer side than in previous weeks.

[retiredguy]

55 years of observing my fellow man and reading extensively has led me to the conclusion that PO plus other resource-depletion problems we are facing will spell catastrophe for mankind.

There is a very tiny chance that disaster could be averted, but steps probably won't be taken in time.

Contrary to what someone posted earlier, I'm not betting I will make it. My age at the time of the crisis will certainly be against me. You young folks are going to take a dim view of keeping us old folks alive when doing so will jeopardize your own survival.

I wish the landers were right. If the economy doesn't collapse I can look forward to many more years of retirement and financial comfort. But that is an illusion.

In the meantime, I'll continue to live a simple life and pursue the use of alternative energy sources just as I have done for the past 30 years.

[retiredguy]

I'd like to pose a question to the landers in particular, and the moderates in general: What are YOU doing to insure the soft-landing/transition? I don't mean what are you doing individually, because that won't amount to very much. Are you expecting "market forces" to sort things out? Or corporations to come to the conclusion that capitalism doesn't work in a finite world?

If you aren't actively trying to influence politicians to your way of thinking or trying to build an organization to champion your cause, then you are not doing anything more than the most pessimistic doomer.

I believe the resource wars have begun. Gulf War 1 was the opening salvo. Gulf War 2 is the second act. The third act is unfolding and it centers on Iran. The Irans are going to go nuclear and the reason is pretty damn obvious: to insure their own security. I'm no fan of the Iranian regime, but if I were in their shoes, I would follow the same path. Once nuclear, Iran can be assured that the US and "coalition of the willing" won't mount an invasion. Nuked oil fields don't produce much oil.

[Permanently_Baffled]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I'd like to pose a question to the landers in particular, and the moderates in general: What are YOU doing to insure the soft-landing/transition? I don't mean what are you doing individually, because that won't amount to very much. Are you expecting "market forces" to sort things out? Or corporations to come to the conclusion that capitalism doesn't work in a finite world?

If you aren't actively trying to influence politicians to your way of thinking or trying to build an organization to champion your cause, then you are not doing anything more than the most pessimistic doomer.

[trespam]

Retired guy: We really don't know how this is going to play out. Resource wars preceded the gulf wars. Flagging ships during the reagan era, the Carter doctrine, FDR buddying up with the Saudis--all are forms of recourse politics--with war as the ultimate form of politics.

Personally, I think humans are in overshoot. I can't prove it. Nobody can. And I understand that petri dishes of bacteria, when they overshoot, collapse pretty significantly. Animals do the same. But we don't know what the time frames are. Humans are not bacteria. The time frames are different.

My point? My gut tells me that the earth isn't going to be happy long term supporting 6 billion people. The earth probably isn't too keen on supporting half that number. But nobody, on this board, or elsewhere, knows the time frames over which this adjustment will occur. Collapse can happen over weeks (a horribly infectious disease or biological warfare) or over several hundred years.

I'm not a cornucopian. But the investment advice of doom and gloomers over the past fifty years sucks. And that, my friend, you can take to the bank.

[nero]

Hi Retired_Guy,

Peak Oil is happening on a very large scale and what I do in particular is not going to affect it. And what is more, I'm not too worried about having to "do" anything about it. Perhaps if we prepare well in advance we can avoid some disruptions, but in the grand scheme of thing I don't expect peak oil to create large disruptions, so why bother trying to mitigate them. I am much more worried about the environment in general. I do think that the degredation of the environment is the critical issue of our time and I get involved on those issues.