[lateStarter]

At what point (assuming we run into a WTSHTF type scenario) will looting cease to be viewed as a crime and morph into the respectable trade of scavaging or 'recycling'? Thinking in terms of the USA, there are a large numbers of Self-Storage centers where there are massive amounts of useful items that will most likely be abandoned. I myself have a huge cache of tools and hardware (screws/nails/gardening equipment/etc..) that I will most likely never see again. I realize that most people will elect to remove anything they have in storage and store it in their back yard when it gets that bad, but I'm sure you can all think of other scenarios where the line may need to be drawn.

I'm sure all the Home Depots/Lowes/etc will be cleaned out fairly early. That means basically looting. But there will be other resources available. I guess what I'm asking is, at what point would you feel comfortable 'raiding' the areas around you for things that might be useful, Post-Peak. Just throwing it out there, no need to attack!

[Specop_007]

Wheres that cache at again?

[lateStarter]

Frederick MD. I can give you the street address if you want. I'd rather see it go to someone planning for the future, than someone reacting to the present. Lots of fishing equipment too (fresh and salt-water)...

[Specop_007]

Good Lord. Well, bein from Kansas I dont think I'll drive that far.
Tell ya what, if shit gets REALLY bad you can bring the stuff out to me.

[k_semler]

I would do it only on abandoned properties, where I knew the owner of that land would never come back. Also, I would have to be able to get away with it too. Yes, it may be theft, but who else is going to use it?

Plus, even if I were caught, I could just use emminent domain as an excuse. I have a better use for it than the original owner did, and I am eliminating blight. And if I get busted for fencing goods, I could just say I am increasing my revenue stream. If they have a problem with it, they need to file with the supreme court. If the government can steal, so can I!

[lateStarter]

Ok Specop, but I guess you won't need the salt-water gear.... Maybe I can sell it to help cover my airfare from Poland to the US and back.

On a serious note, I have been thinking about flying back, getting rid of what crap remains (I got rid of a lot of crap already. All my remaining US belongings fit in a 10x10x10 climate controlled storage unit) and shipping what was left and useful to Poland while there is still time. I would probably need to pay some king of import duty on it, but even if I did, it would be cheaper than buying all the same stuff all over again.

[Aaron]

Ahhh my favorite topic...

Reaping.

Folks around here think I'm joking... (& I am... mostly).

But let's be realistic.

Reaping is a time-tested practice, and runs the length of human civilization.

And is going on right now... everywhere.

I'm probably too old to get drafted, so my big worry is the consequence of endemic poverty.

Reaping's retarded twin.

[MD]

You sure you mean reaping? Or do you mean gleaning?

[lateStarter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', 'I') would do it only on abandoned properties, where I knew the owner of that land would never come back. Also, I would have to be able to get away with it too. Yes, it may be theft, but who else is going to use it?

[bruss01]

I'd be ok with scavenging from private property if the actual owner is dead or presumed never coming back. Putting myself in their shoes, I wouldn't blame someone in need from scavenging my goods if they believed I was dead or gone and not coming back. I'd keep in mind that if my belief turned out wrong, and they did return, I'd have to make some kind of restitution out of human decency if circumstances permitted.

I'd be ok with scavenging from big business (walmart, home depot etc) if I was in need and could get away with it. I suppose the proviso that the store was already compromised (broken into) by others before me would apply, due entirely to my moral preference, unless my need was truly dire. The "not getting caught" bit would be essential, since a big part of surviving SHTF involves not being in jail when it happens.

I'd be ok with scavenging from Government and military if I was in need (or felt I might eventually be in need) and could get away with it. In fact my conscience would be clearer than in the big business scenario, since my tax dollars paid for what I would be taking. The Government has been stealing from me for years, I wouldn't feel bad about returning the favor.

Just be VERY careful if you're scavenging in an area under marshal law. You can be shot on sight without due process if someone thinks you're stealing. Even if you are not shot, just apprehended, you can be detained indefinitely without right to a lawyer or a trial.

[lateStarter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'A')hhh my favorite topic...

Reaping.

Folks around here think I'm joking... (& I am... mostly).

But let's be realistic.

Reaping is a time-tested practice, and runs the length of human civilization.

And is going on right now... everywhere.

I'm probably too old to get drafted, so my big worry is the consequence of endemic poverty.

Reaping's retarded twin.

[RonMN]

Don't think of it as if it's "looked at as a crime" or "frowned upon"...think of it this way...if i go take that stuff, do i think i'll get shot? probably not...ok, let's go take it

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', 'I') would do it only on abandoned properties, where I knew the owner of that land would never come back. Also, I would have to be able to get away with it too. Yes, it may be theft, but who else is going to use it?

[lateStarter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', 'D')on't think of it as if it's "looked at as a crime" or "frowned upon"...think of it this way...if i go take that stuff, do i think i'll get shot? probably not...ok, let's go take it

[Specop_007]

KS,
Sometimes its a death in the family. We had a house like that in our area. Me and a few friends just knew it was abandoned, that was all. Doors were locked, which we managed to pop open. Went inside, just like you described.
Ends up the place had belonged to so and so who died and no one had really done anything with the house.
Chances are, SOMEONE owns the house and just doesnt even think about it anymore.

[lateStarter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', 'I') would do it only on abandoned properties, where I knew the owner of that land would never come back. Also, I would have to be able to get away with it too. Yes, it may be theft, but who else is going to use it?

[k_semler]

Good point, I didn't think of that. How would I go about finding who that land belongs to? Would the county commissioner know if I gave them the coordinates of the house?

[Aaron]

Yes.

In fact your county tax appraisal district probably has it available online.

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', '
')... and one of the storage areas is locked tight.

[pea-jay]

County's assessor's office is a great way to figure out ownership. You could find out which parcels are absentee owned and more or less figure those individuals would never return, especially if they are across the country.

Still in a collapse, it's doubtful the county would be able to give you that info. THey'd be to busy reacting to the problems, if anyone was still around.

My basic philosophy:
Looting - Taking of other people's or company's property while they are still around and able to object.

Scavanging - Taking of other peoples or company's property when they are no longer around to object. (dead, gone, out of business -whatever)