Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.
by mousepad » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 20:01:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')ust weeks after the EV company's collapse into bankruptcy, numerous owners are finding themselves stuck with automobiles hopelessly falling apart as they can get no assistance from Fisker.
Strange. I was told that EV are much simpler mechanically and therefore hardly need any maintenance. Now turns out that EV not only cost more to buy, but also fall apart sooner, needing expensive specialty parts and electronics to fix? And because of that insurance is all more expensive, too? Not even counting the constant danger of a failing battery pack and/or spontaneous combustion? I'm beginning to suspect that ev might not be this awesome great world saving technology I was promised it was.
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by mousepad » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 20:11:23
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'i')nto farm country and you can find them if you have a desire.
Not only would I want to find them, I would want to live among them, too. Just thinking of having to live as a suburbanite gives me the heebie-jeebies. But what am I complaining. I'm glad they are trendy with them slicks. Keeps 'em out of the beautiful country.
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by AdamB » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 23:35:51
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')ust weeks after the EV company's collapse into bankruptcy, numerous owners are finding themselves stuck with automobiles hopelessly falling apart as they can get no assistance from Fisker.
Strange. I was told that EV are much simpler mechanically and therefore hardly need any maintenance.
How much experience using EVs does this source have?
In 3 years now I replaced 1/2 gallon of windshield washer fluid in my 2nd one. And a set of tires. I think a change of transaxle fluid is due soon? Drain, put in some gear oil, button it back up. Sounds pretty intimidating. OH...I replaced the rear wiper blade once..yeah..it was very difficult, required 3 minutes to figure out how to snap the old one off, new one on, and the part cost me like $5.
In the other for 9 years I did multiple sets of tires. 2 sets of wipers. One windshield cracked by gravel from a truck. Changed the inverter coolant once, at 100k miles. Transaxle fluid once.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')Now turns out that EV not only cost more to buy, but also fall apart sooner, needing expensive specialty parts and electronics to fix?
Not in my nearly quarter MILLION miles on my EVs....maybe your source has more extensive experience with poorly built ones, Chinese junk he is always complaining about?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')And because of that insurance is all more expensive, too?
Insurance is slightly more expensive. Call it $100/6 months higher than similarly sized ICE machines.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')Not even counting the constant danger of a failing battery pack and/or spontaneous combustion? I'm beginning to suspect that ev might not be this awesome great world saving technology I was promised it was.
You shouldn't listen to promises, particularly from the uninformed or ignorant....look at those who promised us peak oil back in 1990. 2003. 2005. 2006. 2008. 2015. Liars all. You've got a brain, and I believe are American, and therefore likely to know how to use it. Do that.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."
Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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AdamB
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by AdamB » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 23:37:52
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'i')nto farm country and you can find them if you have a desire.
Not only would I want to find them, I would want to live among them, too. Just thinking of having to live as a suburbanite gives me the heebie-jeebies.
Yeah, I wasn't so thrilled at first either. But been here awhile now, the kids were born here and the wife likes everything available to living in podunk.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."
Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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by mousepad » Sun 18 Aug 2024, 06:45:06
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')In 3 years now I replaced 1/2 gallon of windshield washer
In the other for 9 years I did multiple sets of tires.
Not in my nearly quarter MILLION miles on my EVs.
No doubt. But is your case statistically significant?
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by kublikhan » Sun 18 Aug 2024, 15:14:28
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', 'N')o doubt. But is your case statistically significant?
Kelley Blue Book awarded the Nissan Leaf as having the lowest 5 year total ownership cost out of all EVs. Consumer Reports said EVs have lower maintenance costs than ICE. JD Power reported EVs have lower ownership costs compared to ICE.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Nissan Leaf has been recognized as having a low cost of ownership among electric vehicles. In 2020, Kelley Blue Book (KBB) awarded the Leaf its Best Electric Vehicle 5-Year Cost to Own award for the third year in a row.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') 2020 [Consumer Reports] study found that EVs cut repair and maintenance costs by 50 percent over similar gas cars.
J.D. Power reveals EVs cost less to own over 5 years compared to gas cars in nearly every U.S. stateIMHO, it is not surprising at all that Adam is having a good experience with his Nissan Leafs. Japanese cars have a long history as being reliable. Fisker on the other hand, the car maker in the source you quoted, has been a shit show from the start. They would have failed even if they were making an ICE. The automotive world can be brutal for startups. And Fisker screwups only added to the problem:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')isker would have failed if it were a gasoline car too. “The automaker had unique problems from the get-go,” wrote InsideEVs Editor-in-Chief Patrick George, “from launching a product that many said was fundamentally incomplete to lacking a proper infrastructure for sales, parts and repairs.” Bloomberg was even more brutal: “Fisker Failed Because It Botched Virtually Every Task It Took On."
Business-side issues were one thing, but the car itself was another. The Ocean too was dogged with issues from the very start. In particular, the car’s Version 1.0 software was the subject of widespread condemnation. It was sometimes painfully slow, locked up frequently, and glitched regularly. In February, Auto Focus reviewer Marques Brownlee called it “the worst car I’ve ever reviewed” as well as “the buggiest car I’ve ever tried.” That utterly scathing review got widespread attention and compounded Fisker’s problems at a time when the company was already on the ropes.
Upgraded, But Still Lit Up Like A Christmas TreeOur test car has software version 2.1, the latest. That didn’t prevent the dash from lighting up like a Christmas tree, once, while on the road. The center display also froze entirely once. And on one trip, the navigation stopped displaying its last time digit: “5:2 ” rather than “5:20.” Throughout our three weeks, the car spat warning lights and messages onto the display at random: “Brake system malfunction, service required,” or “ADAS fault—features limited or unavailable, drive carefully,” or “Left daytime running lamp malfunction,” and others. They were accompanied by lit symbols showing which systems weren’t working. But then they’d go away. Eventually, I learned to ignore the warnings.
The whole affair took this author right back to January 2012, on a memorable test drive in the delayed but eagerly awaited Fisker Karma range-extended electric luxury sedan.
Deja Vu, Fisker-StyleThat first corporate iteration of Fisker Automotive—started by the same guy, but a totally separate company from the Fisker Inc. that made the Ocean EV—also failed. Its fate may have been sealed when a Karma tested in March 2012 by Consumer Reports locked up during a test on their track. It suffered from what proved to be a batch of defective cells manufactured by A123, Fisker’s battery partner, that bricked it—along with numerous customers’ cars. Also, it had this little problem with catching fire, which is an outcome you generally do not want. I raise the Karma anecdote to point out that Henrik Fisker has now started two auto companies that went into bankruptcy over quality issues.
We Tested A Fisker Ocean Across 1,500 Miles. Then Fisker Went Bankrupt
Even Tesla, far more successful than Fisker, still struggles with part supply issues. Many customers have to wait months for parts. I think Adam made a smart move getting his EV from a well known brand instead of a startup or Chinese company.
The oil barrel is half-full.
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kublikhan
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by AdamB » Sun 18 Aug 2024, 16:00:22
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')In 3 years now I replaced 1/2 gallon of windshield washer
In the other for 9 years I did multiple sets of tires.
Not in my nearly quarter MILLION miles on my EVs.
No doubt. But is your case statistically significant?
Unlikely. I was an early adopter, put quite a few miles on at least 1 of them, take excellent care of my cages and understood thoroughly the care and feeding of Li-ion. I don't live in an extreme environment and bought them use exactly for the advantages they offer over normal ICE cages.
I can just see some 3rd world outback hoebunkle trying to figure out why they don't get advertised ranges in 110F temps and pissed that 120V charging from a 10 amp circuit means they'll be at it for days to get a tank of electrons and then bitching about the problem as though it isn't based in their ignorance of this particular type of machine.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."
Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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by AdamB » Sun 18 Aug 2024, 16:30:19
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'T')he Nissan Leaf has been recognized as having a low cost of ownership among electric vehicles. In 2020, Kelley Blue Book (KBB) awarded the Leaf its Best Electric Vehicle 5-Year Cost to Own award for the third year in a row.
Mine is a 2015, 9 years old now. If it weren't for that pesky rear wiper blade, it would be like the perfect "ain't dun nuttin to it" car story.
Sucks in the snow though. Free fuel for it at the office though....so....
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')IMHO, it is not surprising at all that Adam is having a good experience with his Nissan Leafs. Japanese cars have a long history as being reliable. Fisker on the other hand, the car maker in the source you quoted, has been a shit show from the start. They would have failed even if they were making an ICE. The automotive world can be brutal for startups. And Fisker screwups only added to the problem:
Never even heard of Fisker. Probably has Australians involved in making it like
when they tried to build Ferris wheels and couldn't get that right.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')Even Tesla, far more successful than Fisker, still struggles with part supply issues. Many customers have to wait months for parts. I think Adam made a smart move getting his EV from a well known brand instead of a startup or Chinese company.
I certainly had no desire to be a beta tester when it coomes to cages. But I must admit, when I first saw the Tesla Roadster charging at the office, when it was like their only car, it stopped me in my tracks just based on its sheer coolness factor. It was quite nice looking, but then so was a Lotus Elise back then which it was based on.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."
Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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AdamB
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by kublikhan » Sun 18 Aug 2024, 20:06:53
This thread has been filled up with Lucky's BS as well. Correctly it all would be a full time job. So I'll just pick a few of his lies to correct:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'G')reen? Greater road dust, tire dust, and brake dust exacerbated by the higher weights of EVs
Do you even understand that the brake pads on an EV are rarely used and instead most of the braking power comes from regenerative braking? Is this an example of your 'rigorous research' and 'scientific literacy'?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he most recent example of electric vehicles being accused of producing more particulate matter pollution than petrol and diesel cars came on the back of remarks made by Environment Secretary George Eustice to the House of Commons’ Environment and Rural Affairs Committee.
Mr Eustice said: “Some say that just wear and tear on the roads and the fact that these vehicles are heavier means that the gains may be less than some people hope.” His remarks appear to refer to claims that electric vehicles emit more nanoparticle matter pollution from their brakes and tyres than petrol and diesel cars, because EVs are heavier. This is a bold statement from the UK’s Environment Secretary, but is it true?
Brake particulate matterWhen slowing a car down, the brake pads are pressed against the brake discs, emitting a fine particulate matter dust in the process. While this happens with all vehicles, brake use, and therefore brake wear, on electric vehicles is substantially less than on petrol and diesel cars.
This is because, in EVs, the overwhelming majority of braking can be done via regenerative braking. This is where the electric motor works in reverse, converting kinetic energy from the moving vehicle into electricity, which is used to charge the battery when slowing down. This not only reduces the use of the mechanical brake discs and pads, but adds more range to the vehicle, too.
Unsurprisingly, the same increase in brake lifespan has been found on other electric vehicles too. Cleevely EV, one of the best-known EV mechanics in the UK based in Cheltenham, regularly sees EVs with brakes that have lasted over 100,000 miles. Cleevely EV notes that they typically have to replace EV brakes not because of wear, but because they’ve seized up due to lack of use.
ConclusionReal EV fleets are already seeing brake lifespans increased fourfold versus the diesel vehicles they have replaced, and tyre wear that is broadly on par with petrol and diesel cars.
Do electric vehicles produce more tyre and brake pollution than their petrol and diesel equivalents?And you are still beating the PeakEV drum? Seriously?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ugust 13, 2024 - Global sales of fully electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles rose by a yearly 21% in July. EVs - whether fully electric (BEV) or plug-in hybrids (PHEV) - sold worldwide were at 1.35 million in July. In the United States and Canada, EV sales were up 7.1% in July.
Global EV sales up 21% in July
The oil barrel is half-full.
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kublikhan
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by mousepad » Sun 18 Aug 2024, 20:58:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'D')o you even understand that the brake pads on an EV are rarely used and instead most of the braking power comes from regenerative braking? Is this an example of your 'rigorous research' and 'scientific literacy'?
There's engine braking with gas cars. And if you know how to drive, you will use it. Many big rigs do this automatically. Not sure why it's not an automatic thing on normal gas cars. Anyways, braking without braking pads ain't an ev exclusive.
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by mousepad » Sun 18 Aug 2024, 21:16:21
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') 2020 [Consumer Reports] study found that EVs cut repair and maintenance costs by 50 percent over similar gas cars.
I doubt this.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')J.D. Power reveals EVs cost less to own over 5 years compared to gas cars in nearly every U.S. state
Of course. Can you imagine if it weren't? All them subsidies must have some effect, right?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')Fisker on the other hand, the car maker in the source you quoted, has been a shit show from the start. They would have failed even if they were making an ICE.
strange. I was under the impression ev are so technically simple, even a baby can assemble 'em. Now you're telling me ev are as complicated as gas cars? Probably true, with the amount of electronics and software they need to just get moving.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')I think Adam made a smart move getting his EV from a well known brand instead of a startup or Chinese company.
Of course. It's always a smart move to get stuff that's subsidized.
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by kublikhan » Sun 18 Aug 2024, 22:10:12
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', 'T')here's engine braking with gas cars. And if you know how to drive, you will use it. Many big rigs do this automatically. Not sure why it's not an automatic thing on normal gas cars. Anyways, braking without braking pads ain't an ev exclusive.
Didn't say it was. But it is quite clear that brake pads are used far more frequently on ICE than EV. And thus, produce more brake dust.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')isker on the other hand, the car maker in the source you quoted, has been a shit show from the start. They would have failed even if they were making an ICE.
strange. I was under the impression ev are so technically simple, even a baby can assemble 'em. Now you're telling me ev are as complicated as gas cars? Probably true, with the amount of electronics and software they need to just get moving.
You are missing the point. It's not just about the cars. It's about the entire car ecosystem. The parts supply, the repairs, the accounting, the capital to keep the company running, etc. Fisker failed on all fronts. Hell, they didn't even build the car at all. That was outsourced to Magna. Fisker f'd everything else up.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')wo years ago, an employee at Fisker Inc. told me that the most pressing concern inside the EV startup was not whether its Ocean SUV would get built. Fisker was outsourcing the manufacturing of its first EV to highly respected automotive supplier Magna, after all. The startup’s November 2022 start-of-production target was aggressive, but not impossible for a company like Magna, which builds vehicles for the likes of BMW.
Instead, this person said, employees were increasingly worried that Fisker wouldn’t be ready to handle all the problems that come after a company puts a car on the road. They were worried the focus was all on building the car and not on the company. The conversation stuck with me because Fisker founder and CEO Henrik Fisker had an automotive startup fail a decade ago for, arguably, this reason.
The employee’s warning that the new Fisker was heading down a similar path was striking and ultimately prescient. Fisker filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection this week after spending only just one year shipping its SUV to customers around the world. In large part, its undoing is directly tied to its inability to address the worries that employee raised in 2022.
This person wasn’t alone. Dozens of others who worked at Fisker have echoed this sentiment to me in conversations since. Most all of them told me about how the lack of preparedness ran deep and permeated almost every division of the company, as I’ve previously reported for TechCrunch and Bloomberg News.
Fisker struggled with the quality of some of its suppliers, and employees have said it did not build out a proper buffer of spare parts. This put extra pressure on the people in charge of trying to fix the cars as they ran into problems, and ultimately led to the company plucking parts from not only Magna’s production line in Austria, but also from Henrik Fisker’s own car.
Fisker struggled at the mundane-yet-serious work of being a public company, too. It lost track of around $16 million in customer payments at one point, thanks to messy internal accounting practices. It suffered multiple delays in its required reporting to the Securities and Exchange Commission. One of those delays allowed one of the company’s largest lenders to eventually take the reins in the final months.
Fisker failed because it wasn’t ready to be a car company
The oil barrel is half-full.
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kublikhan
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by theluckycountry » Mon 19 Aug 2024, 03:49:35
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')
And you are still beating the PeakEV drum? Seriously?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ugust 13, 2024 - Global sales of fully electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles rose by a yearly 21% in July.
Ahhh, so were back to gasoline burning hybrids being classed as EV's are we kub. Well considering how much oil and coal is burned to make a fully electric car and it's battery in the first place they are not that different are they. But the hybrid is NOT an electric car, it is an ICE car with an electric 'component'. Look at the thread title kub. -The Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread-
I suggest if you want to discuss Gasoline powered cars you do it on the right thread.
While you blather on about brake pads and wordsalad definitions the entire EV industry of the US and Europe continues to collapse. Both in sales and in share prices. PeakEV was the middle of 2023, that was when rate of sales growth began in inexorable decline and even the massive EV price drops couldn't stop it. You're cornucopian dream bubble has burst kub.
I'll leave you and adam to have your little jerk circle now
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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by mousepad » Mon 19 Aug 2024, 09:41:03
Sales of ev are still growing and they will be growing for a while to come. And why not? Ev are subsidized to ridiculous levels. Depending on state you can get up to $15k rebate for buying a new ev. Not counting the subsidies the ev/battery manufacturer are getting behind the scenes. Top it off with local subsidies from electric power companies with discounted charging. Sometimes there's secondary benefits, like driving in car pool lanes with ev. And sometimes even insurance is subsidized.
Unfortunately all this subsidizing really shows the weakness of the product. It couldn't stand on its own legs. With close to 10% market share in the US, ev should have long reached critical mass. But they have not. They are bought mostly by rich tax payers as a secondary car, to get some tax money back and to look hip in their Denver suburbs.
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by kublikhan » Mon 19 Aug 2024, 12:14:36
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'A')hhh, so were back to gasoline burning hybrids being classed as EV's are we kub. Well considering how much oil and coal is burned to make a fully electric car and it's battery in the first place they are not that different are they. But the hybrid is NOT an electric car, it is an ICE car with an electric 'component'. Look at the thread title kub. -The Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread-
I suggest if you want to discuss Gasoline powered cars you do it on the right thread.
While you blather on about brake pads and wordsalad definitions the entire EV industry of the US and Europe continues to collapse. Both in sales and in share prices. PeakEV was the middle of 2023, that was when rate of sales growth began in inexorable decline and even the massive EV price drops couldn't stop it. You're cornucopian dream bubble has burst kub.
I see you are still wetting your pants whenever someone mentions a hybrid. And then you bring up blather about word salad definitions? Seriously? You whine and whine about how plugin hybrids are not real EVs and then point the finger about other people blathering on about definitions? How many times do I have to tell you? If you really can't stop pissing yourself whenever a hybrid is mentioned, then just look at the pure BEV data. News flash: That did not peak either.
Personally I like the idea of hybrids, especially during a transition phase. EVs have their share of drawbacks and going the hybrid route mitigates or even completely eliminates those drawbacks. But then you shit all over hybrids as well don't you?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', 'S')ales of ev are still growing and they will be growing for a while to come. And why not? Ev are subsidized to ridiculous levels. Depending on state you can get up to $15k rebate for buying a new ev. Not counting the subsidies the ev/battery manufacturer are getting behind the scenes. Top it off with local subsidies from electric power companies with discounted charging. Sometimes there's secondary benefits, like driving in car pool lanes with ev. And sometimes even insurance is subsidized.
Unfortunately all this subsidizing really shows the weakness of the product. It couldn't stand on its own legs. With close to 10% market share in the US, ev should have long reached critical mass. But they have not. They are bought mostly by rich tax payers as a secondary car, to get some tax money back and to look hip in their Denver suburbs.
Fossil fuels have always been the cheap and dirty option. They provide an incredible bounty of energy. Batteries are not even in the same ballpark. We did not start going the EV route because of the incredible strength of EVs selling in the market unsubsidized. We went the EV route for other reasons: pollution, climate change, oil depletion, etc. I am not surprised EVs are not taking off as quickly as some people projected and still need subsidies.
Do you remember dieselgate? Many people were upset when they found out their VW diesel was not a clean as promised. So they started raising holy hell and demanding VW fix it. Well, VW did release a "fix" for it to make the cars greener. But this had the unfortunate side effect of reducing performance and fuel economy. Alot of people were so pissed off at this that they took to google to figure out how to remove the "fix" themselves to get their performance and fuel economy back, despite the fact this would take their car back to the dirty polluting stage it was in previously. It seems to me most people are not willing to make personal sacrifices for vague notions like "saving the planet". Oh sure maybe a small number of people who care about the planet or just want bragging rights will accept sacrifices. But I'm talking about the rank and file here.
The governments knew this would be a problem. So they tried going with the carrot approach first and offered subsidies to offset the higher price of EVs. This did generate some sales, however not as much as governments hoped as EV take up lagged what they wanted. Not to mention these subsidies were expensive for the governments to keep going. So then they brought out the stick: mandates. They told car makers you better sell X amount of EVs by Y date or their will be hell to pay. What the hell is that? If people don't want to buy an unsubsidized EV then penalizing the car maker is not the answer.
The oil barrel is half-full.
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kublikhan
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by mousepad » Mon 19 Aug 2024, 12:48:14
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'W')e went the EV route for other reasons: pollution, climate change, oil depletion, etc.
Exactly. It's just such a shame that "we" don't understand that less travel, less weight, less consumption, less production, less population would go much further in helping the environment than luxury long range ev.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')The governments knew this would be a problem.
Gov doesn't know shit. There's Joe type in gov that hardly remember which country they are president of.
Instead of simply limiting the amount of oil/gas/coal that can be mined (progressively more limitation with each year), they come up with this weird subsidy mess, supporting all kind of technology the gov thinks is a winner. Always hoping under no circumstances to impact high performance consumption society.
order to gov: set good high level policies and let the details be worked out by the market. Get the fuck out of micro managing the market.
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by kublikhan » Mon 19 Aug 2024, 13:18:30
I think for something like that to really work you would need international cooperation. Or else the fossil fuel extraction would simply shift to countries without those restrictions. They tried something like that with the Paris Accords and later climate summits. But as Planty often points out all that really achieved was greenwashing. Even if you've got a few countries onboard with the slow simmer down approach to fossil fuels, all it takes is a few holdouts grossly inflating their fossil fuel extraction/consumption to erase those gains.
The oil barrel is half-full.
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kublikhan
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by mousepad » Mon 19 Aug 2024, 16:11:11
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'O')r else the fossil fuel extraction would simply shift to countries without those restrictions.
I'm not sure if fully agree with this. The US is a big enough "extractor" of all gas/coal/oil that it could very well make a big impact on the world stage. Extraction could not shift to other countries do to lack of countries with that capacity. And more importantly, imports into the US would also be limited accordingly.
But I get your point, it's a "tragedy of the common" thing.
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by kublikhan » Mon 19 Aug 2024, 17:44:53
I get your point too. As one of the biggest fossil fuel producers and consumers the US could certainly make a big dent in the problem if they really tried. Just raising our fuel taxes, CAFE standards, and energy efficiency standards to European levels would be helpful.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Country Oil consumption per capita(gallons/yr)
United Kingdom 369
France 402
Germany 442
Australia 702
United States 917')
Oil Consumption by CountryI get that the US is a more spread out and less dense country than the European countries so getting us down to that level might be a bit of a stretch. But even meeting half way would be a big improvement. Australia is even more spread out and less dense than the US and they are still beating us in oil consumption per capita.
Although the US did a bit better in energy efficiency in general, it is still a middling score and behind Europe.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Country Energy Efficiency Score(higher is better)
France 75
United Kingdom 73
Germany 72
China 56
United States 54
Australia 36
Russia 28
Saudi Arabia 25')
International Energy Efficiency ScorecardThe oil barrel is half-full.
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kublikhan
- Master Prognosticator
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- Posts: 5064
- Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
- Location: Illinois
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by AdamB » Mon 19 Aug 2024, 20:07:55
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'G')reen? Greater road dust, tire dust, and brake dust exacerbated by the higher weights of EVs
Do you even understand that the brake pads on an EV are rarely used and instead most of the braking power comes from regenerative braking? Is this an example of your 'rigorous research' and 'scientific literacy'?
He doesn't. With 180k miles on the clock, my old EV still had original pads and rotors on it. 30% remaining last time I had them checked at the shop.
Regenerative braking baby! Friction brakes....geez.....how...quaint.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')And you are still beating the PeakEV drum? Seriously?
What else is he going to do? He can't LEARN anything, even with the entire internet at his fingertips.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."
Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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AdamB
- Volunteer
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