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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 13 Aug 2024, 23:48:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'I')t's worthwhile taking a breather at this point and accepting the fact that while the EV mania has ended and the concept is dead, the hangover from it will last many years.

Well, a kangaroo rider might say that, but my remaining one is still running fine just as it has for 9 years now. I've probably got another 9 before the battery degrades enough to go shopping for a replacement.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')What killed the EV and shale oil are the same, economics!

I've got PhD's on call for economic questions, certainly those who can't make the grade in high school...well...I should just be amazed they can spell the word I suppose.

And light tight oil from shales in the US certainly isn't killed, but more like making more oil than all OPEC members except Saudia Arabia. There is this thing called "data", maybe you can look the word up in a dictionary, round some up of it on the internet, and learn stuffs?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby theluckycountry » Wed 14 Aug 2024, 01:00:28

Yes I know Adam, you're not happy, but there nothing I can say to help you.
But here, this young fangirl has some lies to make you feel better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT9tR6W9nWs
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 14 Aug 2024, 16:45:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'Y')es I know Adam, you're not happy, but there nothing I can say to help you.

How in the world would you know if I am happy, or not?

We were discussing your claim of things that simply aren't true.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby mousepad » Thu 15 Aug 2024, 08:37:53

I wish the environmental idiots would realize that traffic is a major source of pollution and try to reduce traffic as an environmental goal. But instead, they promote ev as cheap transport.

Why are politicians so dumb? Why are PEOPLE so dumb as to vote for dumb politicians? It's all very puzzling to me.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 15 Aug 2024, 11:29:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', 'I') wish the environmental idiots would realize that traffic is a major source of pollution and try to reduce traffic as an environmental goal. But instead, they promote ev as cheap transport.

Not all environmentalists are wrapped up in EVs. Bicycling, walking, restricted cars are all ideas that have been thrown out there before. They have the disadvantage of not fitting in with the lifestyle most Americans seem to think is a birthright, 3 ton SUVs, 8 lane super highways so they can live in the burbs with 4000' sq ft to heat and cool with a back yard their kids can play soccer in and still have a good job in the metro area.

Telling folks not to consume (a good single word to encompass the cause of the current human condition) goes against the desire of every "have-not" on the planet trying to be a "have".

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')Why are politicians so dumb?

They aren't. Their job is to give the people want they WANT...not what they pretend to want. So consume baby consume is the order of the day.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')Why are PEOPLE so dumb as to vote for dumb politicians? It's all very puzzling to me.

Because SMART politicians tell the voters what they want to hear...not what they NEED to hear but don't want to listen to.

Beyond Dunbar's Number it is all about me-me-me.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 16 Aug 2024, 04:22:47

Heads should roll over the electric car fiasco
Policymakers have wasted billions chasing a net zero pipe dream. It is time they were held accountable

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2')7 July 2024
Profits at the German auto giant Mercedes plunged on Friday as sales of its slick new range of electric vehicles (EVs) went into freefall. Porsche abandoned its sales targets for battery-powered cars amid waning demand from customers. Ford is losing nearly $50,000 (£39,000) on every EV it sells, while Tesla’s profits dropped 45pc. Meanwhile, battery manufacturers such as Germany’s Varta are getting wiped out.

Over the last few days, it has become clear that the EV industry is on the brink of collapse. Hundreds of billions of euros, dollars and pounds have been pumped into this industry by political leaders and the subsidy junkies that surround them – and it is surely time they were held to account for the vast quantities of taxpayer cash that has been wasted.

In the last few days alone, there has been a steady stream of bad news from auto manufacturers. Mercedes, the company founded by Gottlieb Daimler that pioneered petrol driven cars, is struggling to replicate that success in the battery version. Group net profits were down 21pc on Friday, mostly on falling sales of its new range of EVs. Earlier in the week, its great rival Porsche watered down plans for its electric models.

Across the Atlantic, Ford reported that profits were down by 35pc in the latest quarter amid losses in its EV unit. And Tesla slashed prices and offered generous financing deals to try and revive flagging demand.
Tesla's global sales go into reverse
Lion’s share of EVs are made in China
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ar-fiasco/

So it's over for the West and China is flooding the global market with their cheap garbage.
I was at a bike shop today, organizing a performance upgrade on my premium Japanese sport tourer. In the carpark I heard some guy raising his voice and looked over to see a mechanic and the workshop manager standing beside a trailer on which was a CFmoto Quad bike.

The owner had purchase it recently for light duty on his dairy farm and brought it back with a broken front axle leaving it in 2x2 mode with lots of grinding going on. He wasn't happy but I had no sympathy. Suck it up you old fool, you thought you'd save a couple of grand and didn't realize that the Chinese make garbage automotive. F@#* All R&D and their materials come out of smelters full of used washing machines and microwaves. Only the Japanese and Europeans use proper metals, quality first use steel and aluminum. My bikes have Titanium components, you'll never see that in a Chinese vehicle.
CFMOTO is a global manufacturer based in Hangzhou, China.

We have known for 20 years and more that Chinese is crap but no one calls it out, they probably don't want to be labeled "racist." Other fools chant the meme that "China is just like Japan and in decade..." Well that wore thin about 15 years ago! No, the simple fact that China is now the World's ONLY viable EV maker is truly a terrible sign for the industry. It points to the fact that they were never viable, were always just a money grab, a shell game the operators have now closed down before the masses stuck with all these dogs come to the realization that in 8 years from new they will be albatrosses, that even a wrecking yard wont want to touch.

How dumb did you have to be to believe all the Lies surrounding these mobile ipads? The Stupidity of the average consumer knows no bounds and this is true, but to get conned into an EV? That's a whole other level of gaslighting.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 16 Aug 2024, 04:31:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', 'W')hy are politicians so dumb? Why are PEOPLE so dumb as to vote for dumb politicians? It's all very puzzling to me.


The politicians aren't really dumb, just look at how much Elon Musk is contributing to Trump. He's bought and paid for, always was. If, IF he gets in his promises about dropping all the government funding will be ignored. They just tell the Adam's of this world what they want to believe and then the Adam's rush out on polling day and vote for them. The fox in the henhouse :lol:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was just over on the reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/new/ forum, 3 million members and it's a ghost town, about two posts a day now. Even if only 500,000 members visited it you'd think it would garner more posts? Alas anyone posting about a downside is witch hunted off by the cornucopian fanboi brigade. 90% of the posts are about the ugly truck, rarely a word spoken about the collapse in sales and share price, those get downvoted to oblivion. Talk about an echo chamber...
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 16 Aug 2024, 09:41:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')We have known for 20 years and more that Chinese is crap but no one calls it out, they probably don't want to be labeled "racist."

In America we don't buy all that much Chinese manufactured items like cars, anyone who has used their rechargable batteries knows they don't do batteries well either, and other than American manufacturers who can maintain quality control even inside China, Americans apparently already know this and no one thinks we are rascist for being able to prove it through our use of these products.

I understand why your Chinese mining colony might be different.

Keep up your buying Honda products in protest against your benign overlords, Japanese manufacturing of cars and motorcycles has been pretty decent since my first Accord back in the late 70's, and been good in some 30-40 other models since.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 16 Aug 2024, 09:47:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')The politicians aren't really dumb, just look at how much Elon Musk is contributing to Trump. He's bought and paid for, always was. If, IF he gets in his promises about dropping all the government funding will be ignored. They just tell the Adam's of this world what they want to believe and then the Adam's rush out on polling day and vote for them. The fox in the henhouse :lol:

There aren't that many Adam's in the world, it isn't that popular of a name, and if you meant geoscientists with quite a resume then there are even fewer.

And I vote for who I wish to vote for, within the limited choices provided as the oligarchs aren't too thrilled with 3rd parties getting involved and screwing up their racket.

I exercise this right because America fought its way out of the system and King you are still stuck with to this day, Australia lacking the ability to make its own armaments to use, let alone having the cajones to use them to a proper result as America did back around 1776.

Now run along and practice your Mandarin like a good little toady.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby mousepad » Fri 16 Aug 2024, 14:11:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')Why are politicians so dumb?

They aren't. Their job is to give the people want they WANT...not what they pretend to want. So consume baby consume is the order of the day.

No, they are dumb. I entrust leadership and management of the nation to politicians, because I lack the skill, time and interest to do it myself. I expect world class performance, just the same way as my engineering customers expect world class performance from me. Politicians don't deliver world class performance. They deliver miserable louse fucked up, dumb, illogical shit over and over and over again. And yet, instead of being fired from their assignment, the even DUMBER public keeps voting that vermin into office again and again. It's all very puzzling to me.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 16 Aug 2024, 15:12:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')Why are politicians so dumb?

They aren't. Their job is to give the people want they WANT...not what they pretend to want. So consume baby consume is the order of the day.

No, they are dumb.

Ok...SOME are dumb. But some of them most certainly are NOT.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')I entrust leadership and management of the nation to politicians, because I lack the skill, time and interest to do it myself. I expect world class performance, just the same way as my engineering customers expect world class performance from me. Politicians don't deliver world class performance.

Intelligence and the ability to deliver the results YOU want are two completely different things. Dumb people can do it by accident...think...Trump not doing anything idiotic to get in the way of the Obama recovery he inherited after Obama dug the country out of the Bush economic disaster of 2008.

And as your metrics of "world class performance" might be completely different than mine, or Joe Average, that criteria is itself a slippery slope.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')They deliver miserable louse fucked up, dumb, illogical shit over and over and over again.

I agree. But not because they are all dumb. Could as likely be that they are pandering to the same common large minority of voters.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')And yet, instead of being fired from their assignment, the even DUMBER public keeps voting that vermin into office again and again. It's all very puzzling to me.
So...it IS the voters fault then, as to why we have dumb, or not dumb, politicians who can't deliver results for their constituents. I agree.

It isn't puzzling to me. I grew up in MAGA land when it was just impoverished Appalachia, and having spent more time than I like there recently, I can see the "why" in old friends, family, neighbors, etc etc.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby mousepad » Fri 16 Aug 2024, 17:44:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')So...it IS the voters fault then, as to why we have dumb, or not dumb, politicians who can't deliver results for their constituents. I agree.


Exactly. Just as I said in my original rant:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '
')Why are PEOPLE so dumb as to vote for dumb politicians?


Finally I feel like we're connecting, AdamB. Finally :-) :-)
Have a nice weekend.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 16 Aug 2024, 18:59:13

There ya go Adam, someone finally likes you. And all you had to do was suck-up their ars* for a few posts :lol:

Perhaps we can get back on topic now.


US EV Charging Company Acts to Curb ‘Charging Hogs’

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ugust 16, 2024

A U.S. electric vehicle charging company is developing new technology to deal with EV ‘charging hogs’ who let their electric cars linger at public chargers. Two of the many issues that dampen the electric vehicle charging experience are long lines and extended wait times. In many cases, these wait times are caused by drivers who linger at public EV chargers to let their EVs charge to 100%.

Unlike fossil fuel-powered cars, which can receive a full tank of gas with no issue (in a minute or two), electric car batteries function optimally at 20–80%. “Filling up” your EV regularly (charging up to 100%) can speed up the battery’s rate of degradation and reduce its lifespan. Consequently, charging to 80% kills two birds with one stone by aiding in the preservation of EV batteries and improving overall charging experiences for all drivers. (positive spin on bad news story)

Electrify America is now experimenting with a novel solution that would cut off such drivers once their EVs are fully charged. One of the largest EV-charging companies in the country, Electrify America has built a network of public chargers to serve the nation’s growing electric vehicle fleet. As a result, the charging company serves thousands of EV drivers across the country and is in a unique position to deal with charging hogs.

The company has instituted a limit that automatically cuts off EV charging once the vehicle is 85% charged and instructs the driver to unplug their car or pay an idle time fee of 40 cents per minute for using the spot. This will ensure that drivers who typically linger at chargers leave once their EVs are optimally charged and keep lines moving faster. Tesla vehicles also have a similar feature that limits charging to 80% when they plug into a Supercharger station with many users to limit congestion.

But while Tesla drivers can use a vehicle control to override the charging limit, Electrify America’s limit cannot be avoided, and every driver who uses an Electrify America station will be limited to 80%. The move could go a long way toward improving charging experiences for America’s growing community of EV drivers.
https://www.greencarstocks.com/us-ev-ch ... ging-hogs/

Great! No you can't have a full charge, and don't sneak off to Starbucks for an hour either because you might come back to a huge bill for hogging the charger. Just be a good little EV slave and sit there waiting for your alert to unplug. Wouldn't more chargers simply alleviate the problem? Yes, but they aren't building more because there is FA profit in EV charging. Years ago the Federal government promised 5 or 6 Billion to expand the infrastructure and to date only about 6 charge points have been constructed under the scheme. You gotta love it hey, Lie upon Lie upon Lie and now the EV boi is being treated like dairy cow.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 16 Aug 2024, 19:08:42

Mercedes-Benz’s reputation tarnished by overly defensive response to electric vehicle fire

Yes another EV fire in an underground carpark. More than 40 vehicles completely destroyed and hundreds of others badly damaged.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') joint investigation is underway Aug. 8 to determine the cause of a fire involving a Mercedes-Benz EQE electric sedan in the underground parking lot of an apartment complex in Incheon. Officers from the police, fire department and the German luxury carmaker have gathered to investigate the vehicle fire.

Mercedes-Benz Korea is fast losing its reputation and trust among Korean customers due to the company’s “overly defensive” response to a disastrous fire caused by its EQE electric vehicle, industry insiders say. The incident, which broke out in the parking lot of an apartment complex in Incheon earlier this month, caused widespread damage. More than 40 vehicles were completely destroyed in the fire, while hundreds of other cars were also badly damaged.

The incident has sparked growing public concern about electric vehicles. The German luxury carmaker has faced criticism for failing to announce any countermeasures in response to the latest disaster. While the company has decided to donate 4.5 billion won ($3.28 million) to affected residents, it has not issued an official public apology.
https://newtonstreetartbarn.ca/2024/08/ ... 10JOE.html

The incident has sparked growing public concern about electric vehicles Well Duh, do you think people would not notice and take a strong opinion?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ercedes-Benz Korea’s sales reached 34,380 vehicles in the January-July period this year, down 15.8 percent from a year earlier, widening its lead over its main rival, BMW Korea

Sales are down 15% and they are WIDENING their lead over BMW? I dread to ask what BMW sales are down by... Hey Adam, why don't you make yourself useful for once and look up the BMW sales figures over there :roll:
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 00:12:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'T')here ya go Adam, someone finally likes you.

Married for going on half a century now, just got back from a premiere weekened opening of the new Alien flick with one of the kids hanging with the old man, might go riding motorcycles with both the boy and the girl tomorrow, after I get the girl's cage tire fixed. Nice to have riding partners you've trained yourself I've always found.

Been liked for quite a long time now.

Why your interest in EVs that are quite practical to some of us, yet of no interest to you other than to ridicule? Did they insult ot harm you in some way in the past?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 17:33:52

Oh I like this one

Tesla Owners Are Putting Wet Towels On Supercharger Handles To Get Higher Charging Speeds

Image

By: Iulian Dnistran

The trick is reportedly most useful on older, V2 Supercharger stalls, but it can also come in handy on the newer V3 units
https://insideevs.com/news/718718/tesla ... ing-speed/

EVidiots finding workarounds to get a decent charge rate. How stupid does a person have to be to put up with all this crap when you can just drive into a Gas station and drive off 5 minutes later with a WEEKS worth of power onboard. They really bought into the "Green New Deal", and the Deal was, you buy one of these at twice the price of a normal car, then bend-over and take it up the tailpipe for 8 years.

It's only going to get worse for them too, this is the tip of the iceberg. Charging rates will go up to cover all the vandalism. And when was the last time you saw a gas pump vandalized? Never probably, but these EV chargers get their cords cut off all the time for the copper content. I'm surprised they don't make you bring your own! I think the worst aspect will be that when the manufacturers close their doors you'll be stuck with no parts, no maintenance facilities.

A fool and their money are soon parted.

China’s Abandoned, Obsolete Electric Cars Are Piling Up in Cities

Image
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 17:51:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'I') think the worst aspect will be that when the manufacturers close their doors you'll be stuck with no parts, no maintenance facilities.


Image

Beautiful isn't it? Hell I'd be tempted to buy one, if it wasn't an EV, and if it was made by a Japanese Firm and not some bullshit American corp.

Image

Amazing! What is it? It's a Fisker KARMA my friends. Latest model.

WARNING SIGNS I bought a new $70,000 car that I can’t even drive – I wish I’d seen red flags before it became a ‘lawn ornament’

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ne Fisker owner from Colorado said he spent months trying to source a glass panel for his Ocean's 'SolarSky Roof'. Just weeks after the EV company's collapse into bankruptcy, numerous owners are finding themselves stuck with automobiles hopelessly falling apart as they can get no assistance from Fisker.

Some Fisker owners say they paid as much as $70,000 for their EVs. "I have a car loan for five years for $70,000," the driver stated. "So I am paying for a brand new vehicle that I cannot drive." "There are days where the only solace is it's not a Cybertruck," Hammer said.
https://www.the-sun.com/motors/12213908 ... nt-fisker/

A fool and his money...

Image
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 17:55:55

Keep your eyes open Adam, I know you can only afford to buy cheap EV's but I'm sure you'll be able to add one of these to your stable of junkers in the months ahead. You can just leave it out on the lawn, impress all your RedNeck neighbors :razz:
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 19:39:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'O')h I like this one

Tesla Owners Are Putting Wet Towels On Supercharger Handles To Get Higher Charging Speeds

Why do you care? You have no interest in Tesla's, or how they are charged or who does it, or EVs in general, fine, but you've got this outsized hatred of all things Tesla that it must be based in some other motivator. I mean, just normal Australian jealousy of what he and his companies have managed?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 17 Aug 2024, 19:48:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'K')eep your eyes open Adam, I know you can only afford to buy cheap EV's......

Yeah, try and convince the wife of that, she knows better and won't shut up about a Model Y.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
').. but I'm sure you'll be able to add one of these to your stable of junkers in the months ahead.

I could have added one years ago, but I've fought the good fight and stayed with those manufactured by established cage companies first rather than someone who thinks a cage is a "technology".

And my junker count stands at 2 thank you very much, the other 3 are all nice cages.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')You can just leave it out on the lawn, impress all your RedNeck neighbors :razz:

Suburban Denver doesn't have much in the way of Redneck. Now...move a little north and south along the Front Range into farm country and you can find them if you have a desire. Probably similar to Australian farmer types, except not suffering from inferiority complexes because their nations can't even build their own cars, let lone military hardware.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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