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THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby AdamB » Fri 12 May 2023, 22:35:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')Those sanctions of your President Biden are doing wonders for the coffers of Russia, they are buying more gold than ever with all the profits flowing in from their BRICS partners China and India.


Well, nothing wrong with countries being PM fans any more than citizens of countries with potentially suspicious currencies and whatnot.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 13 May 2023, 18:27:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')I read that the Chinese leader has been snubbing him, wont even accept a call. Can't blame Xi for that, I wouldn't want to try and have a conversation with him either. It would be like talking to a 5-year old.

Sez the poster with a track record overall showing the credibility of a 3-year old or so. So there's that.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby careinke » Sat 13 May 2023, 18:57:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')I read that the Chinese leader has been snubbing him, wont even accept a call. Can't blame Xi for that, I wouldn't want to try and have a conversation with him either. It would be like talking to a 5-year old.

Sez the poster with a track record overall showing the credibility of a 3-year old or so. So there's that.


Not sure I see the connection between the two. I would not think either would have an effect on the other.

Oh, is this one of those statements you use when you really don't have a valid argument??? What was it called again?

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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby noobtube » Tue 16 May 2023, 14:18:41

Got some free time from sweeping the floors to post.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'A')ll I know is Oil is the master resource and while it flowed abundantly and was cheap the price of Gold stayed cheap.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '4')0 years now or so. Not an issue really, one of the things I've learned about the PM bugs selling the same ignorant investment advice from 40 years ago is that they don't use them for anything either. No one can talk about using a gold chip to buy gasoline can they? Paying the rent? Buying a car? Because for all their enthusiasm over PMs, they aren't useful, and most PM bugs just like the idea of owning the stuff for some weird reason. Across the time frame I've mentioned, equities have worked out far better, as I have previously mentioned.


Oil is king. It doesn't matter how hard you work, how much you know, how much land you have, if you don't have oil, oil-powered machines, transportation, and supply chains, your hard work means nothing. Just ask those child laborers in the Congo working 16 hour days, in dirt and mud, what their hard work got them.

People in the United States kill me with that hard work crap as justification for being a freeloading deadbeat, parasite. Hard work put not one drop of oil in the ground, not one ton of coal in the hills of West Virginia, nor a single bit of natural gas in the Earth. All "hard work" did was plunder all those non-renewable resources and replace it with nothing.

Your dollar only has value because of oil. There was no fiat dollar before oil. A dollar was a measure of gold or silver. The digital dollar, the credit dollar, the eurodollar only existed because of oil. Back in the 19th century, before oil, it was all gold and silver. As the oil depletes, in the United States, so does this fiat dollar, which you love so much.

Didn't you work in the oil field? And, you still don't see the connection between depleting oil and the stagnant "markets" over the past 20 years? You still don't see all the financial bubbles from all this "hard work" over the past 20 years? You still don't see that gold and silver have kicked the ass of the dollar over the past 20 years? You still don't see that oil prices just keep going higher and higher despite your claims of all this oil abundance? You still don't see the US in yet another oil war, with Russia this time?

You are in the oil business and don't see it. It's like the car companies in the 1950s/60s. They had no clue of the disaster just ahead (oil shocks and foreign competition) and they only survived through massive government subsidy.

And did you bother reading this...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'I')t is quite obvious to me as well that the world has far more money stashed in these accounts than can ever be repaid to the owners based on the productivity of the planet and the mountains of debt that have accumulated. Ergo they will be defaulted on, probably under the guise of a major event, a cover story. Like the GFC, which was a test case in my opinion, a sort of relief valve to take the pressure off before the appointed day.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby AdamB » Tue 16 May 2023, 15:57:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Oil is king.


Oil is just another hydrocarbon. There are Kings in this world, just ask Lucky, he and his countrymen still bow and scrape to them.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
') It doesn't matter how hard you work, how much you know, how much land you have, if you don't have oil, oil-powered machines, transportation, and supply chains, your hard work means nothing.


Obviously you've never met the Amish, as they do just fine in their culture without being told otherwise by some snooty first worlder that can't see their way around a corner without a Slurpie and some mechanical beast to take them around it in their otherwise meaningless existence?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')People in the United States kill me with that hard work crap as justification for being a freeloading deadbeat, parasite.


Seems to me that hard work isn't crap, and is never a justification for deciding to be a freeloading deadbeat instead. I always thought that term referred to big time socialist countries, communism, Old World European weak wristed man children and whatnot?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Your dollar only has value because of oil.


Seriously, this again? The American dollar was around before oil, it was around after the US peak oils, it is still around today now that oil has returned, and that hard work you make fun of it is what made the US the world's largest producer of it. Again. Largest exporter of LNG, for the first time, just for fun. Because we Americans felt like it. Hard work and all, exceptionalism, smarts, and all better than incessant whining from those who couldn't get a dairy farm of farts worth of gas out of the ground with their resources. Unless they hire some Americans anyway.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Didn't you work in the oil field?


Of course I did. You don't think I earned oilfield snobbery rights doing whatever social influencing/fast food/glad handing/government freeloading nonsense the rest of the world (and many Americans) aspire to do you?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')And, you still don't see the connection between depleting oil and the stagnant "markets" over the past 20 years?


I can teach a class on reservoir engineering. Prove you aren't the previously mentioned social influencing/fast food/ glad handing/ government freeloader / PM groupie and I'll tell you whatever I know about depletion. And having made a MINT off the markets since the 80's (and less of a mint off my assinine gold investment) I didn't see any stagnant markets. I saw markets go up, sometimes down, some recessions, a crash or two, the usual. Maybe you are in the wrong markets? Perhaps you are stuck in the Old World and bet on higher latte prices, or banana futures because you live in one of those banana republics and wanted to keep investment local?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')You are in the oil business and don't see it.


Do pay attention. WAS in the oil business. That was career #1. I'm currently on #3. #2 was the longest. If I stay in #3 and retire there, it will be the longest, but isn't yet. You don't think I stopped at #1 like some social influencer/fast food working/ glad handing waiting on the dole government freeloader parking their backside where it was comfortable just because I got older do you?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')And did you bother reading this...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'I')t is quite obvious to me as well that the world has far more money stashed in these accounts than can ever be repaid to the owners based on the productivity of the planet and the mountains of debt that have accumulated. Ergo they will be defaulted on, probably under the guise of a major event, a cover story. Like the GFC, which was a test case in my opinion, a sort of relief valve to take the pressure off before the appointed day.

Of course I read what Lucky wrote. Unlike Lucky, and many peak oilers, I don't do echo chambers. I also don't tolerate random financial conspiracy nonsense and theories from folks who can't prove they can think their way out of a wet paper bag. So I leave echo chambers to those unable to defend their own thoughts and preferring a nice, soothing repetition of whatever mantra their faith based system has taught them. You know...like.....gold is good...mmmmm....pretend the markets haven't clobbered my gold investment....mmmmmm......peak oil is now.......mmmmmmmmm....oops....peak oil is again.......mmmmmm....I didn't invest in markets a long time ago and now I want someone to blame for my PM fascination when I was younger...mmmmm.....

:)
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Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby theluckycountry » Tue 16 May 2023, 17:59:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', 'G')ot some free time from sweeping the floors to post.

Your dollar only has value because of oil. There was no fiat dollar before oil. A dollar was a measure of gold or silver. The digital dollar, the credit dollar, the eurodollar only existed because of oil. Back in the 19th century, before oil, it was all gold and silver. As the oil depletes, in the United States, so does this fiat dollar, which you love so much.

Didn't you work in the oil field? And, you still don't see the connection between depleting oil and the stagnant "markets" over the past 20 years? You still don't see all the financial bubbles from all this "hard work" over the past 20 years? You still don't see that gold and silver have kicked the ass of the dollar over the past 20 years?


A friend who has gone down the rabbit hole just a little summed it up the other day. "Well people like to focus on the positive future because if they contemplated "what might" happen they would be stressed and unhappy. A typical 99%er mindset. I said in return that they will probably feel a whole lot worse in 10 or 20 years when they are being driven into poverty and having to turn their lights out at 7pm. Then they will wish they had listened more and made plans for this future "that will" happen.

I think the decades from 1955 abouts till 2000 were the dream time of Earthly civilization, concomitant of course with the mass extraction and distribution of oil planet-wide. But as you say, since 2000 the wheels have been falling off, at a rapidly increasing rate. When the great reset comes many here who trusted in the Fiat system will no doubt be gnashing their teeth, in a Biblical sense, because there will be no escape for savings then. I remember in the GFC clients trying to move their private pensions into safer vehicles but there was a 2 week delay for those transactions. Two weeks was all it took for the markets to collapse. 50% here, 50% in the US if I remember rightly.

My biggest problem today is too much passive income, where to put it that's safe? And land isn't a real answer either because if you go over a certain threshold here you become liable for land tax, which is exorbitant. No problem today with the wheels still spinning but you are still liable for that tax whether the properties are being leased out or not. Many people in the Great Depression lost their properties simply because they couldn't raise the due taxes. I'm not greedy but I don't want to loose to much to banking collapses, my only real concern. You can't put all your eggs in one basket, all in gold and silver say.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby noobtube » Tue 16 May 2023, 18:34:59

Just got finished sweeping and vacuuming a lot of floors. All that hard work and what did it get me? I am American. In America. Speak fluent American. Yet, hard work didn't seem to get me anything other than a sore back, bad knees, no savings, laughable "health" care, and no fancy retirement. Plus, I have to compete with all these "hard working" immigrants.

Hmmm. I wonder.

How did so-called "hard work" get the BOOMERS so much more than my generation? Why did my "hard work" not give ME easy credit, cheap, quality, PLENTIFUL food, affordable medical care, and accessible housing? Could it be the BOOMERS are just lying to my generation about all their so-called "hard work" to cover for all the resources they plundered for their selfish use leaving little for future generations? And, they want CREDIT for that?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'O')bviously you've never met the Amish, as they do just fine in their culture without being told otherwise by some snooty first worlder that can't see their way around a corner without a Slurpie and some mechanical beast to take them around it in their otherwise meaningless existence?


Do you live like the Amish? Nope. You brag about motorcycles and possessions and conspicuous consumption. Why would you mention the Amish? They don't help your position at all.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'S')eriously, this again? The American dollar was around before oil, it was around after the US peak oils, it is still around today now that oil has returned, and that hard work you make fun of it is what made the US the world's largest producer of it. Again. Largest exporter of LNG, for the first time, just for fun. Because we Americans felt like it. Hard work and all, exceptionalism, smarts, and all better than incessant whining from those who couldn't get a dairy farm of farts worth of gas out of the ground with their resources. Unless they hire some Americans anyway.


Just because you say you're great, doesn't make it so.

I have a simple question for you, "What is the legal definition of a dollar?" I'll wait.

In your mind, American "hard work" can pull oil out of thin air, the moon, the clouds, and the stars. If that's the case, then why do Americans pay anything for oil at all?

Yet, when I go to the gas pump, the dollar number is higher for a gallon of gas than it was a year ago (or 10 years ago or 20 years ago, etc.). Gee. Why didn't all this "hard work" lower the price of gasoline? Could it be "hard work" is the CAUSE of the higher gas prices? Did the BOOMERS actually make oil MORE scarce, with their wild consumption? Nah. The BOOMERS say they didn't, so that can't be the reason.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')And, you still don't see the connection between depleting oil and the stagnant "markets" over the past 20 years?


I can teach a class on reservoir engineering. Prove you aren't the previously mentioned social influencing/fast food/ glad handing/ government freeloader / PM groupie and I'll tell you whatever I know about depletion. And having made a MINT off the markets since the 80's (and less of a mint off my assinine gold investment) I didn't see any stagnant markets. I saw markets go up, sometimes down, some recessions, a crash or two, the usual. Maybe you are in the wrong markets? Perhaps you are stuck in the Old World and bet on higher latte prices, or banana futures because you live in one of those banana republics and wanted to keep investment local?


You can teach something that doesn't make a MINT, but you made a MINT in "the markets" since the 1980s. And, what is a MINT? Assuming you aren't talking about a flavor, you are talking about money. What is money? A coin. Interesting you use the term MINT and not a check, or a credit, or a currency. Your own words show that a dollar is NOT a source of wealth.

Besides, you are measuring from the late 20th century. I measure from the 21st century. Since the 20th century is in the past (when oil was abundant), it seems that is where you are stuck. The world has passed you by and you are not alone. Lots of people in the United States are going to see how poor they really are trusting in "the markets" and "the dollar" as any store of wealth.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'D')o pay attention. WAS in the oil business. That was career #1. I'm currently on #3. #2 was the longest. If I stay in #3 and retire there, it will be the longest, but isn't yet. You don't think I stopped at #1 like some social influencer/fast food working/ glad handing waiting on the dole government freeloader parking their backside where it was comfortable just because I got older do you?

So, all this career-jumping is a sign of "hard work" in the United States? It looks like nothing more than the instability of employment that occurs when energy resources are depleting. You can dress it up as getting rich, but the country is not getting rich when people are constantly jumping in and out of careers, because they can not get what they want in life out of the one they have. That is not a sign of prosperity, believe it or not. It also shows "hard work" doesn't seem to work if you are in the wrong career path. So, there's that.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'O')f course I read what Lucky wrote. Unlike Lucky, and many peak oilers, I don't do echo chambers. I also don't tolerate random financial conspiracy nonsense and theories from folks who can't prove they can think their way out of a wet paper bag. So I leave echo chambers to those unable to defend their own thoughts and preferring a nice, soothing repetition of whatever mantra their faith based system has taught them. You know...like.....gold is good...mmmmm....pretend the markets haven't clobbered my gold investment....mmmmmm......peak oil is now.......mmmmmmmmm....oops....peak oil is again.......mmmmmm....I didn't invest in markets a long time ago and now I want someone to blame for my PM fascination when I was younger...mmmmm.....
:)

I see. When someone talks about the real, tangible things (e.g. gold, oil, jobs, food, health care, housing), it's just conspiracy and nonsense.

But, when you talk about imaginary/intangible stuff ("hard work", "smarts", "exceptionalism", "the markets", the dollar, 401k, stocks/bonds), then it's real.

The United States government has done a great job convincing the old generation that the real is fake, and the fake is real.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William J. Casey, CIA Director (1981)

Looks like it worked great on you. Wasn't that about the time you bought gold? Interesting.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby ralfy » Tue 16 May 2023, 19:10:19

Exactly, and that's why even with precious metals, oil is still king.

With lots of oil, you can buy lots of barrels with one ounce of gold. Without lots of oil, you will buy much less with the same ounce.

And you need the same amount of oil to maintain economic operations, and even more if you want the economy to continue growing or switch to energy sources with lower returns and quantity, like renewables.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby AdamB » Wed 17 May 2023, 00:52:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', 'J')ust got finished sweeping and vacuuming a lot of floors. All that hard work and what did it get me?

According to you, a boat and plenty of gold. But didn't imbue you with the brains to do something other than store it on a boat. And then lose it. But overall sounds like vacuuming floors did right by you.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'O')bviously you've never met the Amish, as they do just fine in their culture without being told otherwise by some snooty first worlder that can't see their way around a corner without a Slurpie and some mechanical beast to take them around it in their otherwise meaningless existence?

Do you live like the Amish? Nope.

Never said I did. But I do respect them. They aren't these gentlemen playboy retiree types like Lucky, they are the real deal.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')You brag about motorcycles and possessions and conspicuous consumption. Why would you mention the Amish? They don't help your position at all.

A motorcycle was my first and only form of transporation for a year because I couldn't afford a car. Plus motorcycles are cool, and any trained monkey can drive a cage. Moved into my first apartment using one, one piece of furniture held by the passenger at a time. When I was homeless and living in a storage unit to save money for a semester I still had a motorcycle, air cooled, would park it in the storage unit on those cold fall nights and it would warm the place for hours. Don't ever discount the usefulness of a motorcycle.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Just because you say you're great, doesn't make it so.

True. But what do you call it when, in career #2, someone pulls you aside after yet after a national convention presentation, or new science rag article, and asks..."hey...we've got an offer for you". Popularity? Maybe you can sweep those floors SO hard they shine? Invent a new broom? And you too can get an offer you can't refuse. In a good way.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')I have a simple question for you, "What is the legal definition of a dollar?" I'll wait.

Why? Do you not know how to use google? Sorry, I know, you are tired using your limited number of neurons to do much besides sweep floors and lose gold. Here is Merriam Webster. I googled it for you. It was SO hard.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')dollar
noun
dol·​lar ˈdä-lər
often attributive
Synonyms of dollar
1
: TALER
2
: any of numerous coins patterned after the taler (such as a Spanish peso)
3
a
: any of various basic monetary units (as in the U.S. and Canada)
see Money Table
b
: a coin, note, or token representing one dollar
4
: RINGGIT
5
: money obtained from a specific source
the tourism dollar

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')In your mind, American "hard work" can pull oil out of thin air, the moon, the clouds, and the stars. If that's the case, then why do Americans pay anything for oil at all?
Again, how about I google the response for you? Doesn't even need ChatGPT!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')non sequitur
noun
non se·​qui·​tur ˌnän-ˈse-kwə-tər also -ˌtu̇r
Synonyms of non sequitur
1
: an inference (see INFERENCE sense 1) that does not follow from the premises (see PREMISE entry 1 sense 1)
specifically : a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative (see AFFIRMATIVE entry 1 sense 3) proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent (see CONSEQUENT entry 1 sense 1)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Yet, when I go to the gas pump, the dollar number is higher for a gallon of gas than it was a year ago (or 10 years ago or 20 years ago, etc.). Gee.

If you are so silly as to use nominal value for your calculation rather than real, you get to look as foolish as you just did. In which case, no wonder you sweep floors for a living, and here is some more learning so you won't be so uneducated in these conversations next time. Looks like gasoline is no more expensive here recently than it was 15 years ago (I split your 10 and 20 years, high level math you see)
Image
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')You can teach something that doesn't make a MINT, but you made a MINT in "the markets" since the 1980s.

Well, for a poor hilly who once traded a day of baling hay to a farmer down the holler for borrowing their horse because horses were COOL back when I was a youngster, darn right compound interest has been a mint.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')And, what is a MINT?

The wife and daughter want to retire to a hobby farm and they want me to buy it. That'll put a dent in a mint!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Besides, you are measuring from the late 20th century. I measure from the 21st century.

You said you experienced the 70's or 80's. Makes you someone who can easily measure from about the same time frames I can. Not my fault floor sweeping didn't teach you the value of tax deferred compound interest investments as soon as they became available through employers.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'D')o pay attention. WAS in the oil business. That was career #1. I'm currently on #3. #2 was the longest.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')So, all this career-jumping is a sign of "hard work" in the United States?

What do you mean, jumping? 10-15 years in each one so far. Think of each career like an additional college education in different fields of science. You ever hear that 10,000 hours doing something makes you an expert? I've got 77,000 in 3 different careers. It would be like you being promoted from floor sweeper, to toilet cleaner, to car washer across a lifetime. You too could proclaim success at your progression through skill sets.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', ' ')
It looks like nothing more than the instability of employment that occurs when energy resources are depleting.

Says a floor sweeper who lost all his gold because he didn't know enough science to realize that gold is denser than water and doesn't float. In my world they are called "careers". Each one building on the next. Progression. Learning. When you get promoted out of floor sweeping because of your having learned it all, you move up to toilet cleaning, add a new skill to your repetoire. I did something like that. Except each career specialized in the scientific principles of the work involved, and all 3 were different.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')I see. When someone talks about the real, tangible things (e.g. gold, oil, jobs, food, health care, housing), it's just conspiracy and nonsense.
Of course not. When Lucky talks about living in a land he is irriated at because it has no twisty roads, it is just easy to blame the land of the exceptional. For everything his country can't do. Like build cars. Or subs. Military aircraft. Ferris wheels. Launch rockets. Anywhere. I'd be upset at my country to if we Americans couldn't do all of those things. Better than most, if not everyone, else. That would be like Americans being...normal...? Ick.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')But, when you talk about imaginary/intangible stuff ("hard work", "smarts", "exceptionalism", "the markets", the dollar, 401k, stocks/bonds), then it's real.

It's real when I use imaginary/intangible to buy STUFF. Until then it is all some number on a tally sheet somewhere. Do you really have no idea how to get money out of a bank and turn it into something "real"?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby noobtube » Wed 17 May 2023, 16:32:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'E')xactly, and that's why even with precious metals, oil is still king.


It would appear there are many who don't understand this.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', 'J')ust got finished sweeping and vacuuming a lot of floors. All that hard work and what did it get me?

According to you, a boat and plenty of gold. But didn't imbue you with the brains to do something other than store it on a boat. And then lose it. But overall sounds like vacuuming floors did right by you.


Yes, it's a rough life without gold or other PMs. All this "hard work" and "sacrifice" doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere in America, with all this cheap and abundant oil you keep claiming exists.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')I have a simple question for you, "What is the legal definition of a dollar?" I'll wait.

Why? Do you not know how to use google? Sorry, I know, you are tired using your limited number of neurons to do much besides sweep floors and lose gold. Here is Merriam Webster. I googled it for you. It was SO hard.

Obviously you didn't read the question carefully. I said "legal" definition (as in court)... not dictionary definition. There is a big difference.

What is the "legal" definition of a dollar? Does the United States government legally define what a "dollar" is?

You don't know what a "legal" dollar is, and that is a fact. You are too flippant and dismissive to admit you don't know. But, I guess that is a result of "exceptionalism" and "hard work" and "smarts" you keep going on about.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')In your mind, American "hard work" can pull oil out of thin air, the moon, the clouds, and the stars. If that's the case, then why do Americans pay anything for oil at all?
Again, how about I google the response for you? Doesn't even need ChatGPT!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'n')on sequitur
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Yet, when I go to the gas pump, the dollar number is higher for a gallon of gas than it was a year ago (or 10 years ago or 20 years ago, etc.). Gee.

If you are so silly as to use nominal value for your calculation rather than real, you get to look as foolish as you just did. In which case, no wonder you sweep floors for a living, and here is some more learning so you won't be so uneducated in these conversations next time. Looks like gasoline is no more expensive here recently than it was 15 years ago (I split your 10 and 20 years, high level math you see)

I've dealt with excuse-making from old people long enough to know their tricks. You say I made a non-sequitur. I say you are moving the goalposts.

In math, you use a standard measure to compare results over time. In this case, it is the dollar. You change it to some made-up "REAL" value that no one can verify or agree on. But, you do that to hide the FACT that gasoline is MORE expensive in terms of dollars NOW, than 5 years ago, or 10, or 20 years ago.

Real cute.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')You said you experienced the 70's or 80's. Makes you someone who can easily measure from about the same time frames I can. Not my fault floor sweeping didn't teach you the value of tax deferred compound interest investments as soon as they became available through employers.

In the 70s and 80s, I was learning and being taught floor sweeping and advanced toilet cleaning to prepare for my future in the rich, wealthy, exceptionalist America. School taught me the math to calculate how long to sweep a floor, how to use the machines to get it shiny, and the chemicals to keep it that way.

One thing the math taught me is that you can't have compound interest in the real world unless you are talking about a cancer or a plague. If you think actual "wealth" operates on compound interest, I have one thing to say... the numbers don't add up.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', ' ')
It looks like nothing more than the instability of employment that occurs when energy resources are depleting.

Says a floor sweeper who lost all his gold because he didn't know enough science to realize that gold is denser than water and doesn't float. In my world they are called "careers". Each one building on the next. Progression. Learning. When you get promoted out of floor sweeping because of your having learned it all, you move up to toilet cleaning, add a new skill to your repetoire. I did something like that. Except each career specialized in the scientific principles of the work involved, and all 3 were different.

Well, when the floor is swept, everyone can appreciate my work and know who did it. Yeah, school didn't teach me enough about gold (I wonder why?) and how it doesn't mix with water. In fact, it almost seems like a "conspiracy" that schools avoided teaching me about gold and silver in the 70s and 80s. It was almost as if it was a "government conspiracy" to keep American children ignorant and trusting in "the markets" rather than actual money. Naw, the government would never intentionally do something like that to its own citizens.

Though I do remember, my last class in high school, in my final year, in my final semester, and my Economics teacher taught the whole class that the dollar was worthless garbage. Didn't realize how much of an effect that one class had on me the rest of my life.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'I')t's real when I use imaginary/intangible to buy STUFF. Until then it is all some number on a tally sheet somewhere. Do you really have no idea how to get money out of a bank and turn it into something "real"?

Just because you get a permission slip to get "free stuff" doesn't mean that permission slip is valuable, in and of itself. Everything you got with dollars was nothing more than a credit, a token, a pass to get STUFF other people were denied. It didn't matter how hard you worked, how many floors you swept, how much benefit you provided, or how smart you were, or how much you were owed. The banks decide who wins and loses and that is those who control and support the banks. If it was based on actual money, you exchange value for value. You become the bank. With the dollar, or bank credit, all that power is taken from those with money and given to the politically approved (those who BELIEVE in the goober-ment).

It's a crazy arrangement and it will not last much longer.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby AdamB » Wed 17 May 2023, 17:38:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', 'Y')es, it's a rough life without gold or other PMs. All this "hard work" and "sacrifice" doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere in America, with all this cheap and abundant oil you keep claiming exists.


You have my sympathies. Maybe this is a consequence of having lost all your gold because you stored a heavy metal in a boat and then went sailing? Should have left the gold onshore probably. Sounds not so much like bad luck for..to be honest...sheer stupidity?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Obviously you didn't read the question carefully. I said "legal" definition (as in court)... not dictionary definition. There is a big difference.

Learn to read. I took quote I took from you. See?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')I have a simple question for you, "What is the legal definition of a dollar?" I'll wait.


Nothing about a court. You can wait till hell freezes over if the best you can do is lie about what you said, which I quoted so only a moron would think I was answering another question instead.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')You don't know what a "legal" dollar is, and that is a fact.

Find me the definition from Merriam Webster for a "legal dollar" and we'll talk about what I know, or don't know, about it. You pretending you said one thing when you said something else only proves you don't think much at all. No wonder you got short changed in life, without the brains to read the words you write down.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')I've dealt with excuse-making from old people long enough to know their tricks. You say I made a non-sequitur. I say you are moving the goalposts.


You said gasoline was more expensive now than it was 15 years ago. There are two ways of measuring that, one almost guarenteeing that everything is more expensive now than 15 years ago (nominal), and the value of the thing considering the inflation of the currency (real). You didn't say "nominal" gas price now did you? Learn to say what you mean, and you won't be caught out like a horse's backside.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')In math, you use a standard measure to compare results over time.

You can no more lecture me on math than which direction the Sun rises from. In measuring the value of something in the common currency of the land, the US$, there are two standards for measuring value across time. You weren't specific, therefore allowing your 3rd grade understanding of even HOW to measure being exposed, and me happily taking advantage of it. Grow more neurons, you won't make these kinds of mistakes when dealing with adults.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')In the 70s and 80s, I was learning and being taught floor sweeping and advanced toilet cleaning to prepare for my future in the rich, wealthy, exceptionalist America. School taught me the math to calculate how long to sweep a floor, how to use the machines to get it shiny, and the chemicals to keep it that way.

So now that you are an exceptional toilet cleaner and floor sweeper why are you whining about the wonderful location in life these skills have brought you to? It allowed you to collect gold didn't it? Before your ignorance of what floats, and what doesn't, got in the way. Again, that lack of neuron thing. Maybe you can buy some somewhere?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Yeah, school didn't teach me enough about gold (I wonder why?) and how it doesn't mix with water.

Go learn on your own. It isn't hard.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Though I do remember, my last class in high school, in my final year, in my final semester, and my Economics teacher taught the whole class that the dollar was worthless garbage. Didn't realize how much of an effect that one class had on me the rest of my life.

I never learned economics, no classes, high school college, etc etc. Found myself a couple of PhD economists who knew that stuff, and began interrogating them. Who needs to pay for a college education when you've got professors without students in the office next door and they LOVE to teach folks. Each career was an education, you know, like you moving up the ladder from floor sweeping to toilet cleaning.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
') It didn't matter how hard you worked, how many floors you swept, how much benefit you provided, or how smart you were, or how much you were owed.


Quite wrong. It mattered how many floors I swept, more precisely, it mattered how LONG I swept floors and whatnot. Are you as confused about being paid a rate per hour as you are about the density of gold and why it shouldn't be stored on boats?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')The banks decide who wins and loses and that is those who control and support the banks.


Maybe, but when I worked X hours for Y$, and gave them to the bank....when I asked for them back...THEY GAVE THEM TO ME!! Can you believe it? And then I bought stuff. What cares who the CEO is, or the name of the Fed Chair at the time, what matters is they keep doing this really cool thing! Giving you your money back! Can you beleive it, has happened my entire lifetime! You sure you're an American, what you describe about banks and whatnot sounds heavily banana republic third world, or Australian. If your banks won't give you the money back that you put in. There is this thing called "interest", and after you leave your money in there for a little while, get this, THEY GIVE YOU BACK MORE THAN YOU PUT IN!!! Can you believe it?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')It's a crazy arrangement and it will not last much longer.
Heard that one before to. From the guy who sold me my gold in the early 80's. "Not lasting much longer" sure has lasted..well...a lifetime now. Now, do you need a recommendation for someone who will sell you some neurons so you'll stop having these 3rd grader ideas on money, banks, gold on boats, etc etc?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby theluckycountry » Wed 17 May 2023, 18:28:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Though I do remember, my last class in high school, in my final year, in my final semester, and my Economics teacher taught the whole class that the dollar was worthless garbage. Didn't realize how much of an effect that one class had on me the rest of my life.


I flunked high school, the first time round, but I remember this class we took in the first year called, of all things, "Citizenship Education" cit-ed we called it, I imagine the Russians back then had similar classes. They taught us a big load of crap but one thing I remember was teaching us how to open a bank account and deposit and withdraw funds. Years later I was in a bank doing the usual weekly deposit and I noticed that the deposit slips were Green, Good, Go, and the withdrawal ones were Red, Bad, Stop.

I think that was my first realization of the blatant psychology they use to manipulate people. Another saying was, well you might as well take out a mortgage and buy a house, you'll just fritter all that money away anyway. Sign up at 6%, and watch it go up to 18% while you starve for a decade. My favorite all time song is the Moody Blues, "ride my see-saw" I chose to run. Financially it worked out ok, working for yourself, in your own small business is the key.


Ride, ride my see-saw
Take this place
On this trip
Just for me.. .. ..
Ride, take a free ride
Take my place
Have my seat
It's for free.. .. ..
I worked like a slave for years
Sweat so hard just to end my fears
Not to end my life a poor man
But by now, I know I should have run.. .. ..

Left school with a first class pass
Started work, but as second class
School taught one and one is two
But by now, that answer just ain't true


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRQ3MwA4Nws 0:45s onward
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby AdamB » Wed 17 May 2023, 19:21:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', ' ')Years later I was in a bank doing the usual weekly deposit and I noticed that the deposit slips were Green, Good, Go, and the withdrawal ones were Red, Bad, Stop.

I think that was my first realization of the blatant psychology they use to manipulate people.


WOW. The Aussies are brainwashed as children so well by the Chinese approved school teachers that they obey colors on deposit and withdrawal slips as adults? Those ChiComs must be pure GENIUS to have rote trained Aussies like puppies so well it sticks with them through adulthood.

And it isn't "manipulate people", it is "manipulate Aussies taught to not think for themselves". Which also explains the entire inability to build simple things like cars, Ferris wheels, and any military hardware. The Chinese certainly won't want their subjects learning how to use legos, let alone how to bolt together a couple pieces of metal or heaven forbid a lathe, or think about how money works. But WOW, that puppy training lasting into adulthood on people. Amazing.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', ' ')
Financially it worked out ok, working for yourself, in your own small business is the key.


Well this is good. No one who kowtows to foreign ownership should ever be forced to work in the local mining and manufacturing facilities. Plus, general contractors and small business owners here in the States can have criminal records and dependency problems and be dodging the law and it's all okay because they own the company, and just force everyone else to be drug free and non-criminals and whatnot, but those rules don't apply to them.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby theluckycountry » Tue 30 May 2023, 15:34:21

Americans consider gold the second-best long-term investment option, according to a recent Gallup poll. Gold beat out stocks, bonds and savings accounts.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/505592/rea ... rises.aspx

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The perception that gold is the best investment over the long term rose from 15% in 2022 to 26% in the 2023 poll, overtaking stocks at the number two spot.

Real estate has held the top spot since 2013 with 35% of Americans rating it the best long-term investment in the most recent poll. That was down sharply from last year’s record high of 45%.

Stocks held third place with 18%, followed by savings accounts/CDs (13%) and bonds (7%). World Gold Council senior markets analyst Louise Street noted that while higher interest rates seem to have dampened investors’ perception of real estate as the best long-term investment, it hasn’t damaged the perception of gold. On the contrary, the number of Americans naming gold as the best long-term investment almost doubled this year from last. This, despite interest rates climbing to a 16-year high in March.”


The simple fact that Western peoples ignored Gold in favor of stocks after the GFC crash suggested to me that they collectively have the mentality and mindset of a gambler. Sure you can slowly save from your weekly pay packet, but if you go to the races with it and put it all on "Lucky Pride" you could come away with 3 or 4 or 10 pay packets. That's the analogy with stock investment, you roll the dice and hope you get out with a big win.

Gold investment has never been like that, it's purpose is really quite simple, to protect savings from institutional theft and from inflation. This latter part is the thing many miss because they don't see Gold doing anything for long periods of time. Then it takes off and gets their attention, then it seemingly goes back to sleep for years and they forget about it. When does Gold take off? In times of high inflation, and in time of economic uncertainty.

The latter is a supply demand effect caused by people rushing into the asset, the former is a natural part of Gold being a commodity. When food and lumber and land go up in value, so does it. Quite a relief that, because it doesn't matter what the prices of my daily needs will be in 2035, Gold will be there with purchasing power to match them. This has been proved throughout all history, was proved in the 1970's inflation, and in the 2000's, and is being proved again today.

Tesla shares? Well they have lost over 50% of their purchasing power in two years, into the teeth of inflation, just when you need the extra purchasing power the most. But they could be a hedge against inflation in the future, or they could go bankrupt and go to pennies on the dollar. That's the problem with all things tied to the manipulated paper markets. It's a gamble, you can't count on it being there when you're old and have bills to pay.

The classic example of this was the Depression from 1930 onward. Stocks crashed into the dust and stayed there and even real estate went into a long term decline, but Gold was repriced 50% higher and provided a nice retirement nest egg for those who still held it. And yes, Karen, you were allowed to own Gold in that era, even in the US you were allowed by law to hold 5 ounces of standard Gold coins ( the equivalent of $10,000 in 2020 ) plus as many numismatic ounces as you liked. How many you actually held had to do with how much of your life you wanted to surrender to a group of faceless bureaucrats who in no wise would go without their luxuries even as the nation plunged into despair.

Executive Order 6102
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he order specifically exempted "customary use in industry, profession or art," a provision that covered artists, jewelers, dentists, sign-makers, etc. The order also permitted any person to hold up to $100 in gold coins, a face value equivalent to 5 troy ounces (160 g) of gold valued at approximately $10,000 in 2020. The same paragraph also exempted "gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins", which protected recognized gold coin collections from legal seizure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

So all the Bill really did was loot the safe deposit boxes of the wealthy, the average citizen was exempt. By the way, there were severe penalties for hoarding more than the generous allotments stated above, but there is no record of anyone being prosecuted under the law.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby AdamB » Tue 30 May 2023, 17:44:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '[')b]Americans consider gold the second-best long-term investment option, according to a recent Gallup poll. Gold beat out stocks, bonds and savings accounts.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/505592/rea ... rises.aspx


8 in 10 Americans believe in angels.

Nobody ever said the exceptional qualities of Americans is based on their ability to consider...much. Like without an ability to do basic math, it is unlikely that prior to "considering" something, they even know how to calculate an annualized rate of return on different types of investments, let alone figure out which one hasn't beat the market in my investing lifetime.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 05 Jun 2023, 14:05:55

I see bitcoin and it's progeny are falling again, under 26k. The reason stated is because
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')EC Sues Binance. What It Means for Bitcoin and Coinbase

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/4fa2cb6b-1b ... at-it.html


This is the problem with the crypto complex, touted as "People's" money, free of all government machinations, it has again proved itself to be anything but. Crypto follows the broader paper markets and has for a long time, it's last big runup was in tandem with the IT stocks, or the Tech stocks, which exploded during covid. I read an article the other day where it quoted a poll saying about 30% of the US population has some investment in the digital merry-go-round. Didn't surprise me really.

Economic uncertainty, high inflation, this is the environment where Gold shines as an asset to hold but the so called digital gold of crypto has failed to measure up. Digital Gold. Many believed that, but it was just a marketing strategy based on a Lie. Be careful where you put your life savings folks, diversity has always been the mantra but in times of real distress ALL paper assets can decline, and that includes RE, which due to the mortgage mill business is basically a paper asset now as well.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby careinke » Tue 06 Jun 2023, 04:48:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'I') see bitcoin and it's progeny are falling again, under 26k. The reason stated is because
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')EC Sues Binance. What It Means for Bitcoin and Coinbase

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/4fa2cb6b-1b ... at-it.html


This is the problem with the crypto complex, touted as "People's" money, free of all government machinations, it has again proved itself to be anything but. Crypto follows the broader paper markets and has for a long time, it's last big runup was in tandem with the IT stocks, or the Tech stocks, which exploded during covid. I read an article the other day where it quoted a poll saying about 30% of the US population has some investment in the digital merry-go-round. Didn't surprise me really.

Economic uncertainty, high inflation, this is the environment where Gold shines as an asset to hold but the so called digital gold of crypto has failed to measure up. Digital Gold. Many believed that, but it was just a marketing strategy based on a Lie. Be careful where you put your life savings folks, diversity has always been the mantra but in times of real distress ALL paper assets can decline, and that includes RE, which due to the mortgage mill business is basically a paper asset now as well.


You crack me up :-D Ohhhh Bitcoin is crashing and gold is doing so well, yea right. Au is up about 6% YTD, BTC is up 55%. Over five years Au is up 54% and BTC is up 444%. Have to say AU makes some nice jewelry for my wife.

Actually the SEC is sort of counter suing Binance U.S and Coinbase because Binance, Coin Base, and Ripple have all filled suit against the SEC and Gensler prior to the SEC lawsuit filed today.

The FCC lawsuit is also designed to further the U.S. Fed Coin, a Central Bank Digital Currency scheduled to come on board in a month.

This is going to be great theater, place your bets. Are you going to bet on a currency that requires the trust of a third party to control your money ledger? Or are you going use an Open and trustless ledger like BTC.

Finally, the U.S. cannot control BTC, it's decentralized over the entire world, that's the point.

Peace

P.S. I have a buy order in for BTC at $23,000, with the halving in less than 11 months away, it would be a sweet buy.
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby AdamB » Tue 06 Jun 2023, 10:05:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')Finally, the U.S. cannot control BTC, it's decentralized over the entire world, that's the point.

Nor is BTC underpinned by the full faith and credit of the US. And as a financial security with zero real world link, its value is just the psychology of hopes and dreams. For me it's value is already $0. Some folks BELIEVE it might be higher, and back that up with US $1's (funny huh?). Until then...financial securities are worth as much or as little as the next sucker will give you for them.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')P.S. I have a buy order in for BTC at $23,000, with the halving in less than 11 months away, it would be a sweet buy.

Sweet! Until it's value drops by 50% in a quarter I suppose (signifying fewer suckers in the market?). But maybe it doubles? (signifying more suckers in the market?).
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby careinke » Tue 06 Jun 2023, 12:51:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')Finally, the U.S. cannot control BTC, it's decentralized over the entire world, that's the point.

Nor is BTC underpinned by the full faith and credit of the US. And as a financial security with zero real world link, its value is just the psychology of hopes and dreams. For me it's value is already $0. Some folks BELIEVE it might be higher, and back that up with US $1's (funny huh?). Until then...financial securities are worth as much or as little as the next sucker will give you for them.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')P.S. I have a buy order in for BTC at $23,000, with the halving in less than 11 months away, it would be a sweet buy.

Sweet! Until it's value drops by 50% in a quarter I suppose (signifying fewer suckers in the market?). But maybe it doubles? (signifying more suckers in the market?).


"Full faith in the U.S. Government." That phrase lost its credibility a long time ago. Never coming back.

Peace
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Re: THE Precious Metals: Gold Thread 2023 (Merged)

Postby AdamB » Tue 06 Jun 2023, 16:36:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')"Full faith in the U.S. Government." That phrase lost its credibility a long time ago. Never coming back.
Peace


Really? I take one of those green pieces of paper down to the corner store and they give me a coffee. I offer them a bitcoin and get a blank expression.

So if in one case I convert worthless paper but full faith and credit into a purchased item, and the other I can't.....tell me again which one isn't credible?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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