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Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby AdamB » Thu 11 May 2023, 12:33:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'T')he U.S. dollar has become the largest Ponzi Scheme in human history. It had a good run, longer than most other empire's currency. Nothing can fix it now, collapse has already started.
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I am curious how many times that obituary has been written, just on this website? Strikes me it is as common a claim as peak oil having happened, is happening, will happen tomorrow claims back around 2005 or so. Do you have an estimate on how many MORE years, decades, half centuries might be required for it to become obvious to everyone? Because last time I looked, I used this thing, called a dollar (literally, a piece of paper, with a big $1 on it) and someone gave me a drink for it at the local convenience store! Can you believe it? They didn't bite it to see if it was real, or demand $1 worth of precious metals in addition to it, or some fragment of imaginary value like a zillionith of a bitcoin, nope, they just took it and gave me the drink! I was surprised, knowing how many years it has been claimed to be a ponzi scheme. :) Shouldn't there be some...ponzi....happening...?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby careinke » Sat 13 May 2023, 14:53:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'T')he U.S. dollar has become the largest Ponzi Scheme in human history. It had a good run, longer than most other empire's currency. Nothing can fix it now, collapse has already started.
Peace


I am curious how many times that obituary has been written, just on this website? Strikes me it is as common a claim as peak oil having happened, is happening, will happen tomorrow claims back around 2005 or so. Do you have an estimate on how many MORE years, decades, half centuries might be required for it to become obvious to everyone? Because last time I looked, I used this thing, called a dollar (literally, a piece of paper, with a big $1 on it) and someone gave me a drink for it at the local convenience store! Can you believe it? They didn't bite it to see if it was real, or demand $1 worth of precious metals in addition to it, or some fragment of imaginary value like a zillionith of a bitcoin, nope, they just took it and gave me the drink! I was surprised, knowing how many years it has been claimed to be a ponzi scheme. :) Shouldn't there be some...ponzi....happening...?


Probably not nearly as many times as BTC has been called a Ponzi Scheme.

Ponzi Schemes seem to fail when the TRUST in the institution fails, and people begin pulling money out of it and purchase other assets. Sort of like the current banking crises we have going on now. The same thing happened in 2008 with the untruthfulness going on in the banking system. Pick any four year term with the US dollar, does the dollar buy more or less goods? Pick any four year term, does a BTC buy more or less goods?

BTC is a "Trustless" money system. Everyone knows how many BTC are in existence, Everyone knows how many BTC are left unmined and when they will be mined, and anyone can track where the BTC are (in a wallet) at any point in time. So pray tell, how do you turn that into a "Ponzi Scheme."

Most people don't even really understand what a Ponzi Scheme is. For example, LOTS of people think the Tulip crash was a Ponzi Scheme. It wasn't. I suggest people should first learn what a Ponzi Scheme is, before commenting on it.

That said, I standby my assertion the U.S. petrol dollar is the largest ever Ponzi Scheme in the history of mankind.

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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby AdamB » Sat 13 May 2023, 17:36:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')Probably not nearly as many times as BTC has been called a Ponzi Scheme.


I haven't come to a conclusion on what...exactly...bitcoin is. It is clever, it has value to folks who will take it (same as folks will take a motorcycle, or not, in trade for something), is a variable value same as a stock does, which means when I get charhed 1 bitcoin for a drink, that could be a bargain, or utterly outrageous, and you don't know which until you go to buy the drink.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')Ponzi Schemes seem to fail when the TRUST in the institution fails, and people begin pulling money out of it and purchase other assets.

Ponzi schemes aren't an instituion, they are a rigged game. I don't think bitcoin is a ponzi scheme because its value can be infinitely variable, so being worth 0 is as acceptable as it being worth a 5000# of gold. You just need someone to make that leap from digital to real and in that instant you know.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')Pick any four year term with the US dollar, does the dollar buy more or less goods? Pick any four year term, does a BTC buy more or less goods?

Sort of. Except the bitcoin can go to 0 tomorrow, whereas because the dollar is an institution, the odds of it becoming zero are negligible. Bitcoin is more like a penny stock, boy can it become valuable! And then again, it can go back to where it started. In a day or two.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')That said, I standby my assertion the U.S. petrol dollar is the largest ever Ponzi Scheme in the history of mankind.
Peace

I am familiar with the US currency, the US dollar, but not the "US petrol dollar". What in mind is the difference between the two?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby ralfy » Sat 13 May 2023, 18:56:22

Promissory notes paid for by issuing more promissory notes.
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby AdamB » Sat 13 May 2023, 21:12:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'P')romissory notes paid for by issuing more promissory notes.


And what do you use for trade in your 3rd world country Ralphy, donkeys, bags of rice or wheat? US dollars work pretty well are are far easier to carry in ones wallet.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby careinke » Sat 13 May 2023, 23:56:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')
I am familiar with the US currency, the US dollar, but not the "US petrol dollar". What in mind is the difference between the two?


https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/072915/how-petrodollars-affect-us-dollar.asp

Sorry, I was just using it as a synonym. They are the same dollars.

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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby AdamB » Sun 14 May 2023, 10:52:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')
I am familiar with the US currency, the US dollar, but not the "US petrol dollar". What in mind is the difference between the two?


https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/072915/how-petrodollars-affect-us-dollar.asp

Sorry, I was just using it as a synonym. They are the same dollars.

Peace


No apologies necessary, the definition you provided seems to make sense, has historical precedence, and yes they are the same dollars, it appears to be related to how they flow out through the global system. Which would have been substantial back after peak US oil in 1970. Not the REAL US peak oil of course, but the one before the more recent ones.

It seems to be a reasonable concept, that folks take a solid currency in exchange for oil sales to the US. The entire process has been dismantled as the US has become the world's largest producer of oil, largest exporter of finished petroleum products, largest exporter of natural gas, it would seem those old petrodollars have now reversed direction and are coming home.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby ralfy » Sun 14 May 2023, 19:05:00

"'Petrodollar' at risk as TotalEnergies sells LNG to China in yuan"

https://www.rfi.fr/en/business/20230331 ... na-in-yuan

"Is Saudi Arabia preparing for the collapse of the petrodollar and US dollar dominance?"

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230 ... dominance/
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby yellowcanoe » Mon 15 May 2023, 15:31:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '&')quot;'Petrodollar' at risk as TotalEnergies sells LNG to China in yuan"

https://www.rfi.fr/en/business/20230331 ... na-in-yuan

"Is Saudi Arabia preparing for the collapse of the petrodollar and US dollar dominance?"

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230 ... dominance/


So where is Saudi Arabia going to invest the profits from their oil and gas business? Probably not China or Russia because neither of these countries truly have rule of law and you risk having your investment stolen from underneath you. The United States and other Western countries remain the safest place to invest because they have solid rule of law and properly regulated stock exchanges.
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby careinke » Mon 15 May 2023, 16:46:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yellowcanoe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '&')quot;'Petrodollar' at risk as TotalEnergies sells LNG to China in yuan"

https://www.rfi.fr/en/business/20230331 ... na-in-yuan

"Is Saudi Arabia preparing for the collapse of the petrodollar and US dollar dominance?"

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230 ... dominance/


So where is Saudi Arabia going to invest the profits from their oil and gas business? Probably not China or Russia because neither of these countries truly have rule of law and you risk having your investment stolen from underneath you. The United States and other Western countries remain the safest place to invest because they have solid rule of law and properly regulated stock exchanges.


Bitcoin :P
Last edited by careinke on Mon 15 May 2023, 17:06:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 15 May 2023, 16:50:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yellowcanoe', '
')
So where is Saudi Arabia going to invest the profits from their oil and gas business? .


Where did the US invest its profits all those decades ago when it was a major oil exporter, In the US of course. They used them to build infrastructure and fund the space race and a lot of wars. Saudi Arabia is already embarking on some crazy expensive projects, that Wall in the desert will need a lot of $$$. Why not just spend their oil revenues rather than looking around the globe for "investors/exploiters"

Lots of nations since WWII have been investors in the US but it's not as attractive a proposition as it once was. It's a house of cards really, looks good on the outside but once you delve into things it's a hollow shell supported by massive debt. Look at GM, it's totally in debt.

Finance noted that GM’s most recent financial statement reported on February 10, 2021, showed a total debt of $109.89 billion GM Market Cap 45.943B. So the company has twice the debt of it's valuation, how does that work after nearly a century in business? GM's debt is almost equal Saudi Arabia's treasury holdings and it's only one US company

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ccording to the Microsoft's most recent balance sheet as reported on July 29, 2021, total debt is at $58.15 billion


Now why in the Hell would Microsoft have such a huge debt? All they do is rewrite old software code and sell it for a fortune into a captured market. Imagine the dividend payments you could get if these corps didn't have so much debt on the books. I think I know what's going on. I believe many or most big publicly listed corporations are basically cash cows now for the Big Banking cartel. By mutual agreement too. This keeps the lions share of the profits at the top of the food chain and the masses have to be content with seeking gains from stock price appreciation. Something that is well known to be manipulated today.

Saudi Arabia would be brainless to put money into this sort of system at this point in history. They will get a much better deal in the BRICS and breaking away from the $US stranglehold.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby AdamB » Mon 15 May 2023, 19:09:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yellowcanoe', '
')So where is Saudi Arabia going to invest the profits from their oil and gas business?

Bitcoin :P


Having trained and tutored Saudi engineers as far back as during my college days, and worked with some of their ARAMCO staff for quite some time, those folks are quite smart across the board. Lazy on occasion, but they certainly didn't get as rich as they are playing with things of imaginary value.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby ralfy » Mon 15 May 2023, 19:56:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yellowcanoe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '&')quot;'Petrodollar' at risk as TotalEnergies sells LNG to China in yuan"

https://www.rfi.fr/en/business/20230331 ... na-in-yuan

"Is Saudi Arabia preparing for the collapse of the petrodollar and US dollar dominance?"

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230 ... dominance/


So where is Saudi Arabia going to invest the profits from their oil and gas business? Probably not China or Russia because neither of these countries truly have rule of law and you risk having your investment stolen from underneath you. The United States and other Western countries remain the safest place to invest because they have solid rule of law and properly regulated stock exchanges.


You skipped the part about France being paid in yuans. Might as well tell you that Brazil, Mexico, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and others are trying to move away from the dollar, too, using various currencies for trade as they buy from each other, anyway, and planning to use the Asian Monetary Fund. And then there's the bit about Japan buying oil from Russia and other European countries buying the same indirectly via India.

At some point, even the most dense neoliberal will realize that we're looking at not just China and Russia but BRICS and over forty emerging markets involved.

As for solid rules of law, etc., I'll let 2008 and even trillions underreported speak for themselves:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygree ... -reported/

When it comes to that, compared to the U.S., Russia, China, and others are rank amateurs.
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby ralfy » Mon 15 May 2023, 19:58:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yellowcanoe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '&')quot;'Petrodollar' at risk as TotalEnergies sells LNG to China in yuan"

https://www.rfi.fr/en/business/20230331 ... na-in-yuan

"Is Saudi Arabia preparing for the collapse of the petrodollar and US dollar dominance?"

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230 ... dominance/


So where is Saudi Arabia going to invest the profits from their oil and gas business? Probably not China or Russia because neither of these countries truly have rule of law and you risk having your investment stolen from underneath you. The United States and other Western countries remain the safest place to invest because they have solid rule of law and properly regulated stock exchanges.


Bitcoin :P


https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/ar ... ges-remain
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby AdamB » Mon 15 May 2023, 20:07:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')Bitcoin :P


https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/ar ... ges-remain

https://external-preview.redd.it/lRenGK ... 72981674c7
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby theluckycountry » Wed 17 May 2023, 13:56:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rof. Michael Hudson’s new book, The Collapse of Antiquity: Greece and Rome as Civilization’s Oligarchic Turning Point” is a seminal event in this Year of Living Dangerously when, to paraphrase Gramsci, the old geopolitical and geoeconomic order is dying and the new one is being born at breakneck speed.

Prof. Hudson’s main thesis is absolutely devastating: he sets out to prove that economic/financial practices in Ancient Greece and Rome – the pillars of Western Civilization – set the stage for what is happening today right in front of our eyes: an empire reduced to a rentier economy, collapsing from within.

And that brings us to the common denominator in every single Western financial system: it’s all about debt, inevitably growing by compound interest.


https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... d-collapse

Pretty much what we are witnessing. Of course if you live in the dominant economy you may not see this, but I certainly can. The BRICS system is being quickly tooled up to pick up the pieces of the collapsing $US. Which when you think about it is a better option than the usual method of having a World War and letting the winner rule from the ashes.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby theluckycountry » Wed 17 May 2023, 14:02:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '
')
https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/ar ... ges-remain


President Xi Jinping is doing what the US Presidents typically did isn't he. Traveling around the world to cement relations with the big resource providers and other important nations while leaders of the more degenerate nations, like France, go hat in hand to him in Beijing.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby AdamB » Wed 17 May 2023, 16:09:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '
')
https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/ar ... ges-remain


President Xi Jinping is doing what the US Presidents typically did isn't he. Traveling around the world to cement relations with the big resource providers and other important nations while leaders of the more degenerate nations, like France, go hat in hand to him in Beijing.


So now a English Commonwealth country who surrendered to the Chinese without firing a shot or permission from their King are feeling superior to the cheese eating surrendy monkeys because......you've got boxing kangaraoos? The French can build cars, planes and subs, they might be a sorry cousin compared to the top tier nations but they are still a real one. Best of luck to you and your countrymen Lucky, but first you've got to find a way to get rid of the "We Love ChiComs" tattoo they branded your forehead with as a reward for outstanding boot lickery.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby ralfy » Wed 17 May 2023, 19:39:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '
')
https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/ar ... ges-remain


President Xi Jinping is doing what the US Presidents typically did isn't he. Traveling around the world to cement relations with the big resource providers and other important nations while leaders of the more degenerate nations, like France, go hat in hand to him in Beijing.


I think the only President who tried that was Trump, and not only with "important nations" but even those like North Korea.

Also, Xi isn't just cementing relations but doing what the U.S. could have done but didn't do, which is to engage in trade and peace deals. Hence, Saudi Arabia and Iran:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/11/us/p ... biden.html

Instead, the U.S. was profiting by selling weapons to both Saudi Arabia and Israel, and then trying to use both against Iran.

Meanwhile, France is operating in the same way as the U.S.: making deals with China because the U.S. screwed it out of sub deals with Australia. It's similar with European allies buying Russian oil indirectly from India, and Japan buying oil directly from Russia.
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Re: Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting Alternatives To US $

Postby theluckycountry » Fri 19 May 2023, 20:28:24

Perhaps that's Frances motivation, or perhaps it goes a lot deeper. Perhaps they see an affiliation with the BRICS as insurance for future energy supplies from Russia, and perhaps as insurance if the war there gets out of hand? A/ France is a notorious turncoat of a nation, and B/ Europe always devolves in a warzone.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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