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THE Gasoline Price Thread 2022-2023

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 17:49:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'J')ust a reminder that inflation adjusted price of motor fuel should be the focus...not just current prices.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/Gasoline-(all-types)/price-inflation

Your link isn't working for me, but your point is a good one. We ALL tend to do too much short term thinking, and biased toward our cherished beliefs vs. objectivity. (Me too, but at least I try to fight it by checking my assumptions and using redundant data sources and credible sources vs. being able to quote nonsense from blogs to "prove my point". NOT talking about you, but the internet in general.)

Using oil prices as a proxy for gasoline prices, and I tend to trust the data from macrotrends overall, I'd say we're smack near the middle of the long term average price levels on an inflaiton adjusted basis, despite all the recent claims of "catastrophic" oil prices. (One constant is that the amount of whining in the US being pervasive is highly persistent in the 50 years I've been paying attention -- over a WIDE range of topics).

https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude- ... tory-chart
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 17:54:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'B') S as the local station here is charging $4.00 to keep the doors open. Not a small station either as they have six double sided gas pumps and two diesel pumps. I just bought beer and wine. :)

When one internet claim overrides national averages from credible sources, be sure and get back to us. Meanwhile, I live in a place with fairly "calm" gasoline prices re not trending to extremes on news, and the price has been in the $3.30 area for several weeks now on average, and our prices tend to trend near the national average.

Just because in places in high tax CA, you see claims of gasoline being over $5, for example, certainly doesn't mean that's the TYPICAL experience for Americans.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 17:59:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'T')he only real question about pearl Harbor is why the commanders there were not expecting that attack and ready to defend against it.
The public information alone of our clamping down on exports to Japan of steel and oil should have rung alarm bells in every command post.
Was it just lucky that the carriers were not in port? And no I do not know the answer to that one.

With all the laziness and incompetence CONSTANTLY displayed in the world for all manner of things, shouldn't it be obvious? Especially in something as MESSED UP as war?

Maybe Russia and a little place called Ukraine will ring a bell as a modern day reminder of how screwed up military conflict tends to be?

I still find it hilarious that conspiracy theorists claim it is a BIG DEAL that the 911 attacks caught the US by surprise, given all the noise they hear every day over various channels.

Expecting massive and persistent human competence, especially from large organizations, flies in the face of reality. Such competence is the RARE EXCEPTION, not the norm. And often it's luck -- like large company X with a huge stock price rally being in the right place at the right time, vs. being some overall brain trust over the long term.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 18:06:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'T')he only real question about pearl Harbor is why the commanders there were not expecting that attack and ready to defend against it.
The public information alone of our clamping down on exports to Japan of steel and oil should have rung alarm bells in every command post.
Was it just lucky that the carriers were not in port? And no I do not know the answer to that one.

I remember watching a WW II movie with my dad as a teen (in the mid 70's). Some courier brought a letter to an army mail office from someone with a big warning re Pearl Harbor risk to some general, a day or two before the attack. The bored mail clerk asked if it was urgent. The courier said "no", and it was stuffed in some normal mail slot. My dad laughed and said "It will get there in a week". Sounded about right, and he served in WW II.

...

With all the laziness and incompetence CONSTANTLY displayed in the world for all manner of things, shouldn't it be obvious that INCOMPETENCE REIGNED? Especially in something as MESSED UP as war?

Maybe Russia and a little place called Ukraine will ring a bell as a modern day reminder of how screwed up military conflict tends to be?

I still find it hilarious that conspiracy theorists claim it is a BIG DEAL that the 911 attacks caught the US by surprise, given all the noise they hear every day over various channels.

Expecting massive and persistent human competence, especially from large organizations, flies in the face of reality. Such competence is the RARE EXCEPTION, not the norm. And often it's luck -- like large company X with a huge stock price rally being in the right place at the right time, vs. being some overall brain trust over the long term.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 19:49:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'B') S as the local station here is charging $4.00 to keep the doors open. Not a small station either as they have six double sided gas pumps and two diesel pumps. I just bought beer and wine. :)

When one internet claim overrides national averages from credible sources, be sure and get back to us. Meanwhile, I live in a place with fairly "calm" gasoline prices re not trending to extremes on news, and the price has been in the $3.30 area for several weeks now on average, and our prices tend to trend near the national average.

Just because in places in high tax CA, you see claims of gasoline being over $5, for example, certainly doesn't mean that's the TYPICAL experience for Americans.

You should note that California is a rather large slice of the USA population and economy and the price of gas there is not just a claim but reality. That a few million Americans in middle America have cheaper gas does not balance out the prices paid by tens of millions on the coasts. Also $3.30 gas is not good compared to $2.30 gas when Biden took office.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 19:57:28

I'd be fine using inflation adjusted prices for fuels if my income had also been inflation adjusted 100% at the same time the fuel prices were. But my inflation adjustments now and back in the 80s have tended to be more like 65% and a year late if ever.
Ask yourself, has your after tax income increased 8% this year? What has your personnel cost of living (your household budget) gone up this year? 8% or closer to 25%?
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 25 Nov 2022, 20:00:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')Also $3.30 gas is not good compared to $2.30 gas when Biden took office.


Neither was the reason why it was so low, the prior Administration having handed off The Greatest Recession Since The Great Depression. And it is neither good nor bad for those with the foresight to have prepped properly for those peak oils claimed so many times this century. Let the automotive Neanderthals be at the mercy of their transportation choices, Cro-Magnons have moved on. :)
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 28 Nov 2022, 16:11:50

Out and about this morning within 4 minutes ride from the house.

$2.89/gal regular unleaded. My first sighting of sub $3/gal locally in awhile. Prices, they be edging in the right direction for those trapped in the world of antique power for their cages.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby theluckycountry » Mon 28 Nov 2022, 17:00:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I')'d be fine using inflation adjusted prices for fuels if my income had also been inflation adjusted 100%


It really boils down to whether you believe the inflation figures the government publishes. The Labor Department excluded food and energy prices from core consumer prices back in the 70's I believe, It's like as long as you don't need to eat, drive, or heat your home you'll be ok.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 28 Nov 2022, 19:16:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I')'d be fine using inflation adjusted prices for fuels if my income had also been inflation adjusted 100%


It really boils down to whether you believe the inflation figures the government publishes. The Labor Department excluded food and energy prices from core consumer prices back in the 70's I believe, It's like as long as you don't need to eat, drive, or heat your home you'll be ok.

Having worked for one government or another for forty years I do not believe any figure they publish until verified by some reliable source.
Gasoline today here was $3.78 so a bit less odious, but in that quick stop store a box of frozen fried chicken was $17.99 when it used to be $9.99. Everything else in the freezer or cooler had similar markups.
Between food, fuel, rent and taxes I see a lot of working class people facing 25% inflation not 8%.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 28 Nov 2022, 21:31:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')
Gasoline today here was $3.78 so a bit less odious, but in that quick stop store a box of frozen fried chicken was $17.99 when it used to be $9.99. Everything else in the freezer or cooler had similar markups.


You buy food at the local quick stop and expect good prices? Wouldn't it be cheaper to find what you want food wise at a local decent sized grocery or something like that?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') Between food, fuel, rent and taxes I see a lot of working class people facing 25% inflation not 8%.


Good thing fuel prices are trending downwards then.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby careinke » Mon 28 Nov 2022, 22:21:43

I just bought 47 gallons of diesel for $5.49/Gal a couple of hours ago. Way better than $6.49 a week or so ago. I also bought 19.7
Gallons of LPG for $4.35/Gal.

The other day I bought regular unleaded at Costco for 3.99, First time I've seen it below $4 in months. Wish they sold diesel and propane there.

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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 29 Nov 2022, 15:06:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I') just bought 47 gallons of diesel for $5.49/Gal a couple of hours ago.
Peace


What's it like dropping $200+ just to fill up your tank? I get all shivery thinking about it, never done that before in my life, everytime the wife and I even think about filling up my old Titan pickup or Armada SUV with 25 gallon tanks at $4/gal we want to puke. So then it became "give us 30mpg+ or give us death!" and then it became "give us 40mpg+ or give us death!" and then it was like "peak oil is coming, give me batteries!".

Now I notice the electric bill is a little higher for the 800 miles of local commuting we do and it is less a bump than the damn streaming services the wife requires for her entertainment needs.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby careinke » Wed 30 Nov 2022, 04:38:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I') just bought 47 gallons of diesel for $5.49/Gal a couple of hours ago.
Peace


What's it like dropping $200+ just to fill up your tank? I get all shivery thinking about it, never done that before in my life, everytime the wife and I even think about filling up my old Titan pickup or Armada SUV with 25 gallon tanks at $4/gal we want to puke. So then it became "give us 30mpg+ or give us death!" and then it became "give us 40mpg+ or give us death!" and then it was like "peak oil is coming, give me batteries!".

Now I notice the electric bill is a little higher for the 800 miles of local commuting we do and it is less a bump than the damn streaming services the wife requires for her entertainment needs.


Actually, that was for half a tank of Diesel, My 36ft Diesel Pusher Class A motorhome has big tanks. I never let it run much below 1/2 a tank. We use it as a mobile "mother in Law house" that we can move between our beach place and our grandchildren's place depending on need. It works great as we take most of our our stuff with us. So your comparison is off base.

I'd certainly be interested in a 36' Electric RV that could go 800 Miles before recharging, or even 400 miles with a two hour or less recharge rate. I could dump my engine, transmission, 30 Amp Diesel Generator (Which uses the same Diesel tank as the engine), and the house Lead Acid Batteries.

Day to day we drive a Toyota Cavalier, that gets us around 38 MPG. We also have two heavy duty electric bikes for shorter trips.

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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 30 Nov 2022, 11:15:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I') just bought 47 gallons of diesel for $5.49/Gal a couple of hours ago.
Peace


What's it like dropping $200+ just to fill up your tank?


Actually, that was for half a tank of Diesel, My 36ft Diesel Pusher Class A motorhome has big tanks. I never let it run much below 1/2 a tank. We use it as a mobile "mother in Law house" that we can move between our beach place and our grandchildren's place depending on need. It works great as we take most of our our stuff with us. So your comparison is off base.


Well that is indeed something other than run of the mill commuting.

Good to hear that for all Armies whining about the end of the world and various peak oil claimants, there is still enough fuel and money in folk's pockets they can make entire households portable in America.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 01 Dec 2022, 21:16:57

2nd local gas station spotted under $3.00/gal for regular unleaded. Just barely though...$2.99/gal.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 02 Dec 2022, 01:03:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ') Also $3.30 gas is not good compared to $2.30 gas when Biden took office.
Oh, I see. So the real message is the usual "let's whine about Biden" from the right. No doubt, with the false narrative that under Trump, gas prices would still be low.

LOL. So much yapping from the usual suspects, but so little credibility.

Do you think if Trump had won that the Ukraine war wouldn't have occurred? Or that if Trump had asked, OPEC would have kept prices low? Unless you can produce good evidence for that from credible sources (not far right wing arm waving blogs), there's no reason to believe it.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 02 Dec 2022, 04:05:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ') Also $3.30 gas is not good compared to $2.30 gas when Biden took office.
Oh, I see. So the real message is the usual "let's whine about Biden" from the right. No doubt, with the false narrative that under Trump, gas prices would still be low.

LOL. So much yapping from the usual suspects, but so little credibility.

Do you think if Trump had won that the Ukraine war wouldn't have occurred? Or that if Trump had asked, OPEC would have kept prices low? Unless you can produce good evidence for that from credible sources (not far right wing arm waving blogs), there's no reason to believe it.

Criticism of Biden's policies is not whining. It is just a clear review of cause and effect.
Fuel prices most certainly would have remained lower under a second Trump term or have you not been paying attention to Biden's war on fossil fuel and the "great transition" he dreams of.
As to the Ukrainian war Trump's loose cannon foreign policy might well have left Putin in doubt enough to persuade him to stay home. We will never know on that one.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 02 Dec 2022, 10:16:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')Criticism of Biden's policies is not whining.


True. But only criticizing one party is reverse partisanship. For example, while you are quick to mention increasing fuel prices while Biden has been President, you sure don't want to discuss how fantastic it is that his policies and shining leadership are now bringing them down. That would give credit where you don't want credit to be due.

I would love to discuss with a true Rhino Republican where all the white supremacy loving, Nazi and Confederacy flag waving and sympathizing is coming from within your happy band? I mean, did they just move to the US from Argentina? And how did the KKK, once a Democan institution, turn into a bunch of capital sacking Republicrats? Seems weird.

And we can compare and contrast with the communist group within the Democan party, although AOC seems pretty tame compared to a bunch of neo-Nazi pro-Confederacy convicted traitor types.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vtsnowedin', '
') It is just a clear review of cause and effect.
Fuel prices most certainly would have remained lower under a second Trump term or have you not been paying attention to Biden's war on fossil fuel and the "great transition" he dreams of.


Certainly the US didn't want 4 more years of The Greatest Recession Since The Great Depression, so the cause being Trump, the effect was to get his orange butt out of the White House. So yes, you are right, cause and effect. And those pesky record annual deficits, Americans aren't fond of those either. Biden sure cured that issue real quick like! Aren't you happy he did that? :)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vtsnowedin', '
')As to the Ukrainian war Trump's loose cannon foreign policy might well have left Putin in doubt enough to persuade him to stay home. We will never know on that one.


You mean Trumps natural sycophant tendencies with strongman governments like Putins? Yeah, I think Trump was rolling over and offering up our countries belly to Putin just fine, after all, he thought he was a great and smart guy when he invaded Ukraine. Strikes me that Trump, who wouldn't even hand over weapons authorized by Congress to Ukraine, would have been more likely to happily stand bye and cheer on his fascist kin than do much to stop Putin, a great and smart man according to Trump. As opposed to the scumbag KGB officer with delusions of Russia's greater glory in mind.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread 2013-2022

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 02 Dec 2022, 10:19:17

3rd store spotted locally, regular unleaded at $2.90/gal. Just noticed it last night within a mile of the house while out for ice cream.

Like the idea of Biden's policies bringing down those prices! Saw on the news last night that someone has the expectation they'll be down another $0.50/gal by Christmas. Not bad Sleepy Joe! Keep up the good work!
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