[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')If you care to read it is accessible.

[Newfie]

I have been reading about the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire. The presentation is disjointed but it reminds me a lot of our current situation.

In this late period Constantinople because even more obsessively concerned with dogmatic religious matters such as the exact nature of God and the wording of the Nicean Creed. Or at least that was the acknowledged focal point of dispute, from this vantage it sounds more like they were in a nasty internal battle for control of what was left. Like 2 tots fighting over a rag doll, they pulled it apart. In the meantime the Turks and Mongols had grander visions and were securing their ascendant empires. It is a case where the internal fighting was so intense the outside threa, common enemy, failed to unite them.

Today we have the aged political dynasties fightg over who controls what while there are outside forces which will destroy us all and these idiots can't quit squabbling.

Our outside enemies may be different; oil depletion, climate change, water, etc. But they are very real and being ignored over petty personal power grabs.

That is unlikely to end well

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Today we have the aged political dynasties fightg over who controls what while there are outside forces which will destroy us all and these idiots can't quit squabbling.

[C8]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Our outside enemies may be different; oil depletion, climate change, water, etc. But they are very real and being ignored over petty personal power grabs.

[Newfie]

Interesting thought.

How many democratic empires have their been?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('C8', '
')The reality is that democracy has a fatal flaw seldom taught in our schools- it exacerbates internal conflict.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('C8', '
')The reality is that democracy has a fatal flaw seldom taught in our schools- it exacerbates internal conflict.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('C8', '
')The reality is that democracy has a fatal flaw seldom taught in our schools- it exacerbates internal conflict.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('C8', '
')The reality is that democracy has a fatal flaw seldom taught in our schools- it exacerbates internal conflict.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')eally? And so the value of those protections are okay to be political and therefore ephemeral?

[Newfie]

IIRC the abortion fight was because it was decided by the COURTS not the ballot box. The recent ruling puts the deciding power back to the ballot box, each state gets to make their own decision.

This is not my preferred solution but the one that exists.

Similar to the EPA ruling, the court did NOT limit what the EPA can do, it limited what the President can do. And that is a good thing because Presidents can change and a new President can abolish or reverse decisions made by a previous President.

Largely the Court is trying to return the power if the Presidency back to its intended function. The problem is congress has become ineffective as a legislative body due to the party power struggles.

And least anyone forget, we have large swaths of this country under one party rule, and where that happens it is generally not good for that residents.

With such a negative show of success why would anyone want to extend single party rule? And yet it seems to be the major topic of discussion.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')eally? And so the value of those protections are okay to be political and therefore ephemeral?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') Those misreading the second amendment have been denying inner city minority people the right to bear arms for years.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') Those misreading the second amendment have been denying inner city minority people the right to bear arms for years.

[C8]

I don't have a dog in this fight re: abortion but if someone really believes in democracy they should be cheering this court. On almost every decision the court is returning decision making to Congress or the states where voters can elect those who share the views of the people.

You really have to do great twists of logic to accuse this court of being anti-democratic.

You should be more worried about the liberal justices. In every decision the past 20 years they have voted to concentrate power in the hands of un-elected lower courts and federal bureaucrats. They voted that CDC bureaucrats had total and unchecked authority to prevent landlords from evicting tenets to stop the spread of Covid- that is an incredible amount of power.

When liberal justices become the majority, then you will see the end of democracy.

[Newfie]

C8,

Well put.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('C8', 'I') don't have a dog in this fight re: abortion but if someone really believes in democracy they should be cheering this court. On almost every decision the court is returning decision making to Congress or the states where voters can elect those who share the views of the people.

[vtsnowedin]

OK for today's bold prediction!!!
Expect all the blue states to remain pro choice and even strengthen their laws to that end and supporting and funding women coming in from pro life states to get around their states rules.
Expect twenty of the twenty five pro life states to find the majority of the women in their states will not allow laws that do not have exceptions for rape or incest. or travel out of states prohibitions, or restrictions on contraception methods or Plan B type drugs.
Expect pro lifers in those states to be really pissed but over ruled by the voters.
That leaves just five states, give or take a few, where really restrictive anti abortion laws remain in place past the next two or three election cycles and these states will become unimportant backwaters to American society. Also they may lose many cases where they try to restrict women's rights to cross state lines for an abortion, or to have plan B delivered by mail or prescribed by physician based on interstate commerce rules.
Republicans in red states that try to shovel against this tide will find themselves looking for paying work.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'O')K for today's bold prediction!!!
Expect all the blue states to remain pro choice and even strengthen their laws to that end and supporting and funding women coming in from pro life states to get around their states rules.
Expect twenty of the twenty five pro life states to find the majority of the women in their states will not allow laws that do not have exceptions for rape or incest. or travel out of states prohibitions, or restrictions on contraception methods or Plan B type drugs.
Expect pro lifers in those states to be really pissed but over ruled by the voters.
That leaves just five states, give or take a few, where really restrictive anti abortion laws remain in place past the next two or three election cycles and these states will become unimportant backwaters to American society. Also they may lose many cases where they try to restrict women's rights to cross state lines for an abortion, or to have plan B delivered by mail or prescribed by physician based on interstate commerce rules.
Republicans in red states that try to shovel against this tide will find themselves looking for paying work.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')
But hey, that's just me. And I'd be just as mad at the left if they try to take away, say, my right to own handguns to defend my own home (castle doctrine). So this isn't a left vs. right thing for me but rather a matter of principle. And no, I'm not "pro-abortion", I'm pro CHOICE and all for informed family PLANNING.