[Newfie]

Yes, specific wording is needed.

But I think the concept is more than sound, is necessary.

WHY there is not more of a grass roots movement is disheartening.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'Y')es, specific wording is needed.

But I think the concept is more than sound, is necessary.

WHY there is not more of a grass roots movement is disheartening.

[vtsnowedin]

I think the actual numbers are that we have more people registered to vote and actually voting then ever before so your cynicism is misplaced.
Our biggest real problem is the media taking sides and filtering information out that goes against their desired outcome.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'E')vil,

No one mentioned Trump.

If you want to start a thread comparing the two crooks be my guest. But it is hard to see what relevance it has here.

If you want I can seed a new thread with some of the above posts.

Not trying to shut down the conversation. Just move it if it is going to continue.

Thankyou for understanding.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')If I was king I would make voting mandatory...

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'E')vil,

No one mentioned Trump.

If you want to start a thread comparing the two crooks be my guest. But it is hard to see what relevance it has here.

If you want I can seed a new thread with some of the above posts.

Not trying to shut down the conversation. Just move it if it is going to continue.

Thankyou for understanding.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')If I was king I would make voting mandatory...

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he 55.7% VAP [voting age persons] turnout in 2016 puts the U.S. behind most of its peers in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, most of whose members are highly developed democratic states. Looking at the most recent nationwide election in each OECD nation, the U.S. places 30th out of 35 nations for which data is available.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'E')vil,

No one mentioned Trump.

If you want to start a thread comparing the two crooks be my guest. But it is hard to see what relevance it has here.

If you want I can seed a new thread with some of the above posts.

Not trying to shut down the conversation. Just move it if it is going to continue.

Thankyou for understanding.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')If I was king I would make voting mandatory...

[Newfie]

Tanada,

I was once much like you, now I don’t vote. But I let my Wife fill out my absenteed ballot that I sign. I don’t think my vote matters. She still does. So I give her something that costs me nothing.

There is a difference between thinking your vote does not matter and not caring. I care a great deal. And if a topic comes up where I feel my values are represented the. i will damn sure vote. But that has not happened since 2004 so I am not holding my breath.

My heartfelt belief is that very few candidates are in it for the good of society, they are mostly in it for their own personal gain; financial or ego. The difference between the R and D candidates is mostly just for show.

Obviously your opinion is different. I simply want to pint out that for this ONE person it is not indifferences or lazy. It is disgust with the existing political show.

Let me be just a bit more explicit:

I don’t care which party has vomited what dogs breakfast for the ticket. I would rather starve than try to gag down that mess. Trump or Hillary? NO.

If you press me I will tell how I REALLY feel! LOL

[evilgenius]

I don't actually agree with mandating voting. I agree with making it as easy as it can be. I think the driver's license thing, and things like that which get people registered are good because they allow people to participate who make a last minute decision to do so. Otherwise, the wisdom of the crowd probably works the same, so long as the original sample size is large enough, to determine what the will of the people is at any given moment in time.

There are other choices we can make as a democracy. One of those is to protect ourselves from what any one snapshot could do to us, assuming that the people are inflamed over some issue and aren't thinking clearly. That's why the US builds in constitutional protections.

The problem with thinking that your vote doesn't matter, though, has a harsh answer. It matters, to the degree that you are a part of a plurality. If your vote actually mattered as much as those who make this complaint lodge it, then they wouldn't be living in a democracy. Because a plurality does not guarantee that your point of view will be that of the people. If there are constitutional protections, it does guarantee that you won't be unreasonably stripped of one thing or another, but it doesn't guarantee that the hillbillies, bojacks, flintheads or neanderthals won't win. It doesn't guarantee the advance of civilization. That has to come with some marketing. The people have to be convinced.

Even the resolution of this last point is an evolving conundrum. Because the US sort of requires that the constitutional protections it provides be enumerated, specifically written and adopted into the constitution according to an accepted process. But the US is open to interpretation. It is because US society has proven that it evolves faster than the people can keep up with it in that official manner.

We let the courts decide what certain things mean. We let them because words change meaning over time, and what they mean is just as up to the will of the people as the specific rules that are given. The courts have, so far, been able to keep up. I think that's about to change, with abortion.

The hillbillies are about to claim some sort of victory there. It will very likely spark a wrestling match which they never dreamed was possible. Because, as it turns out, it is actually hard to amend the US Constitution. It is so hard that some people aren't guaranteed certain things, mostly having to do with personal autonomy, that other groups take for granted. It's a two thirds process. By definition, that is limiting to such groups of people. The nature of that is to protect the course of history, so that it remains continuous, but it also denies current reality, and how enlightenment can be like a seismic process sometimes, how it can make leaps when we expect it to crawl. But opening up that sort of process is also fraught with dangers that many people who want to whip others and themselves into a frenzy most often simply don't understand. That's my guess, anyway.

[Pops]

The way to eliminate the threat of democracy to those who have power and wealth is to limit voting as much as possible, see: trump, donald.

The easiest way to get there is to imply how ignorant and dishonest many people are, the other party particularly. Since the average person thinks they are above average intellectually and of the highest moral character, not to mention that god is on their side, they will quickly agree. Obviously it works.

Voting is the basic human right. Equal rights for all does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.


Back in the day the sign read, "old enough to fight, old enough to vote". We still have a draft registration, it is mandatory because we think protecting the country is important. The same slogan applies. If fighting and dying at the whim of the government is deserving of mandate, then so should be voting. It is the minimum owed.

But whatever. Ain't going to happen. Our rot will continue. Perhaps trump will be reelected and we won't have to worry about being bothered after that
.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', ' ')Perhaps trump will be reelected and we won't have to worry about being bothered after that

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'H')ave you noticed that a few years ago we had flash mobs hitting mall courts and doing Irish dancing or doing a great performance of the 1812 overture and today a flash mob smashes into a high end store and rips off all the merchandise left exposed on the shelves? How times have changed!

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'H')ave you noticed that a few years ago we had flash mobs hitting mall courts and doing Irish dancing or doing a great performance of the 1812 overture and today a flash mob smashes into a high end store and rips off all the merchandise left exposed on the shelves? How times have changed!

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')Do you think when Biden leaves office he'll be so upset about it that he attempts a coupe, or will he be an American that doesn't believe Putin's word is worth more than the entirety of the American intelligience services?

[vtsnowedin]

This is not quite a Clinton vs. Trump mashup but this is as good a place to post this as any. A jury has acquitted two of those charged of plotting to kidnap Michigan's Governor.

GRAND RAPIDS, MI – A federal jury didn’t find four men suspected of conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer guilty Friday.

Brandon Michael-Ray Caserta, 33, of Canton, and Daniel Harris, 24, of Lake Orion, were found not guilty of conspiring to kidnap, a potential life offense.

The jury was hung on conspiracy charges against Barry Croft Jr., 46, of Bear, Delaware, Adam Fox, 38, of Wyoming.


https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids ... her-2.html

[Newfie]

Huh! Bear, Delaware. Next town over.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'H')uh! Bear, Delaware. Next town over.