$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I')f you adjust that graph for inflation after the end of the gold standard you get a more realistic picture of the value of the market.
Also consider that there are about 130 million more Americans today then were in the economy in 1970. That alone would account for about a 40% rise in the value of the economy as measured by the DOW.
PeakOil is You
Peak Oil > Covid 19 > Great Reset
Re: Peak Oil > Covid 19 > Great Reset
by vtsnowedin » Thu 23 Sep 2021, 01:45:00
True, the Fiat dollar has lost 95% of it's value since 1971 when Nixon "temporally" decoupled the Dollar from Gold. This makes the value the DOW today worth about $1,700 in 1971 dollars. Not very impressive.
Peace and welcome to the Metaverse.
I don't know as you can go all the way back to $1,700. To me things are about ten times higher then they were in 1971. Starting wages then $1.70 now $17.00 gas 35 cents now $3.19 etc. So perhaps inflation adjusted Dow would be $3,400 which would be about a 4.5% inflation adjusted growth per year over the last fifty years. Not great but better then all other options.
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Re: Peak Oil > Covid 19 > Great Reset
by theluckycountry » Thu 23 Sep 2021, 05:33:56
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('adonis', 'B')uffett said Wednesday ..."
Who cares what Buffett says other than considering it as a contray indicator. He makes billions of dollars and the source of that wealth is the American people. If he holds a huge amount of stock in Coke, then every time you rip the top of a can you are increasing his fortune. He is not your friend, your mentor. You will never be invited to dinner with him and Bill Gates. You are the little people he feeds off and if you want to worship him, which many poor Americans do, then feel free, just don't come on here and complain that the system is ripping you off when your favored asset crashes.
Aug 17, 2011,12:02pm EDT
How Buffett Saves Billions On His Tax Return
Buffett’s double-dip tax loophole of donating appreciated shares to charity also saves him 15% long-term capital gains taxes on the embedded capital gains in the shares he donates (as noted in my Aug. 16 blog “Mr. Buffett, the IRS needs your charity, too”). For discussion purposes, assume that appreciation is approximately $20 billion, and that would save him another $3 billion in income taxes. Total tax savings could be over $13 billion.
Buffett and Bill Gates asked other billionaires to sign their pledge to donate half their net worth to charity in similar fashion. Others are not as wealthy as Buffett, so figure 50 billionaires’ times $5 billion of tax savings equals $250 billion of taxes diverted from the IRS and states. That’s a meaningful amount of taxes and it should be considered for repeal in pending discussions for tax reform.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... d36b04611d
A lot of people on here talk but they offer no linked evidence, they want you to think the world is just how you see it on TV. They want you to trust the government, to trust the billionaire robber barons, to trust the system that has taken you from a nation of wealthy middle-class people who felt confident of the future to a nation wondering if they will have enough to make the house payment next month.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: Peak Oil > Covid 19 > Great Reset
by vtsnowedin » Thu 23 Sep 2021, 07:49:51
You miss the point that for Buffet to avoid taxes on that income he had to give it away meaning he does not have it to spend as he might wish.
The authors of the tax code think it is a good thing to promote such giving to approved charities so Buffet is just doing what the government wants him to do. Perhaps they should change the rules or the limits in them but to criticize successful tax payers that go by them is misdirected.
The authors of the tax code think it is a good thing to promote such giving to approved charities so Buffet is just doing what the government wants him to do. Perhaps they should change the rules or the limits in them but to criticize successful tax payers that go by them is misdirected.
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Re: Peak Oil > Covid 19 > Great Reset
by Outcast_Searcher » Fri 24 Sep 2021, 21:11:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I')f you adjust that graph for inflation after the end of the gold standard you get a more realistic picture of the value of the market.
Also consider that there are about 130 million more Americans today then were in the economy in 1970. That alone would account for about a 40% rise in the value of the economy as measured by the DOW.
Also consider that there are about 130 million more Americans today then were in the economy in 1970. That alone would account for about a 40% rise in the value of the economy as measured by the DOW.
True, the Fiat dollar has lost 95% of it's value since 1971 when Nixon "temporally" decoupled the Dollar from Gold. This makes the value the DOW today worth about $1,700 in 1971 dollars. Not very impressive.
Peace and welcome to the Metaverse.
1). Based on what math?
2). The Dow today is largely irrelevant. It's only 30 industrial stocks. Something like the S&P 500 index or a broad market index of thousands of stocks at least tells us something.
In the real world, overall, the S&P 500 has risen about 7%, including dividends, in real (inflation adjusted) dollars since 1929 (when good record keeping supposedly began). Since then, the nominal value has risen about 10% (not inflation adjusted).
In the real world, using a credible citation vs citation free arm waving, the S&P 500 was at about 670 in 1971 in inflation adjusted returns.
https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500 ... chart-data
I have found macrotrends to consistently be reliable, re their figures.
Or if you want the S&P 500 without inflation adjustments, it was 93.49 at the beginning of 1971.
4445 / 93.49 = 47.5+
https://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-historic ... le/by-year
So, since 1971, the S&P 500 has had MASSIVE returns compared to inflation. And that's BEFORE dividends, since the indexes don't include dividends. So roughly double that, since over time, roughly half of broad stock market index returns are from dividends.
4445 / 670 = 6.6+ Double that for the dividends, and you get a 13.2 times return, inflation adjusted since 1971.
4445 / 93.49 = 47.5+ Double that for the dividends, and you get a 95 times nominal return since 1971.
Various inflation calculators like:
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
https://www.aier.org/cost-of-living-calculator/
Show total inflation from 1971 to have $1 becoming about $6.70 in 2021.
NOTE that your claim that the dollar has lost 95% of its value in 1971 is NONSENSE. It's lost a lot, but 1 / 6.7 is roughly 15%, not 5%. So you're off on your inflation claim by a factor of THREE.
So, which is bigger: 95 or 6.7?
Dividing 95 by 6.7, I get 14.2, which is mighty close to the 13.2 we get for the inflation adjusted return, considering I'm using a very round number for the dividends.
So in reality, inflation adjusted stock market total returns since 1971 have been MASSIVE, using facts and credible references for inflation and a reliable stock index.
Do you have facts and data from CREDIBLE sources to present, or just more fact free hand waving in rebuttle?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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