[Pops]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, more than trans girls sports or creeping communism, cyber attacks on infrastructure is probably our biggest threat.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/08/us/cyberattack-colonial-pipeline.html]Cyberattack Forces a Shutdown of a Top U.S. Pipeline[/url]
The operator, Colonial Pipeline, said it had halted systems for its 5,500 miles of pipeline after being hit by a ransomware attack.

One of the nation’s largest pipelines, which carries refined gasoline and jet fuel from Texas up the East Coast to New York, was forced to shut down after being hit by ransomware in a vivid demonstration of the vulnerability of energy infrastructure to cyberattacks.

The operator of the system, Colonial Pipeline, said in a vaguely worded statement late Friday that it had shut down its 5,500 miles of pipeline, which it says carries 45 percent of the East Coast’s fuel supplies, in an effort to contain the breach. Earlier Friday, there were disruptions along the pipeline, but it was not clear at the time whether that was a direct result of the attack or of the company’s moves to proactively halt it.

On Saturday, as the F.B.I., the Energy Department and the White House delved into the details, Colonial Pipeline acknowledged that its corporate computer networks had been hit by a ransomware attack, in which criminal groups hold data hostage until the victim pays a ransom. The company said it had shut the pipeline itself, a precautionary act, apparently for fear that the hackers might have obtained information that would enable them to attack susceptible parts of the pipeline.

Administration officials said they believed the attack was the act of a criminal group, rather than a nation seeking to disrupt critical infrastructure in the United States. But at times, such groups have had loose affiliations with foreign intelligence agencies and have operated on their behalf.

The shutdown of such a vital pipeline, one that has served the East Coast since the early 1960s, highlights the vulnerability of aging infrastructure that has been connected, directly or indirectly, to the internet. In recent months, officials note, the frequency and sophistication of ransomware attacks have soared, crippling victims as varied as the District of Columbia police department, hospitals treating coronavirus patients and manufacturers, which frequently try to hide the attacks out of embarrassment that their systems were pierced.

[vtsnowedin]

Hopefully they will trace back and locate the attackers and have Seal team five (six can't go every time) give them a fatal midnight visit.

[Outcast_Searcher]

But while the attacks will happen, with assistance from the occasional insider, re bribes, etc, there is NO reason serious businesses can't BACK UP ALL their data EVERY DAY. In fact, if they're running a serious database like DB2, it can log all their data as each database gets updated.

So, there's no reason almost all or even 100% of data can't be recovered and TO HELL with the clowns who are bribing them.

Or even get smart and actually run the main business in a private virtual box, and just use the internet to communicate with the outside world, but NOT let it directly impact the key databases.

And yes, it will cost a bit more, but it makes the increasing rabble of criminals, including blackmailers, pretty much impotent.

I don't feel particularly sorry for supposedly serious businesses that rely on complex computer technology that can't be bothered to look 5 minutes (or 6 months) ahead and actually work to protect themselves.

And yes, I walk the walk, not just talk it. I'm just a normal private user managing my own data, and I keep MANY copies of my key data files offline, including some in a safe deposit box. And I keep multiple copies of my entire hard drive backed up in a cycle, should I get some nasty virus, so I can do a full recovery as easy as replacing 4 screws in 5 minutes. And I keep multiple (inexpensive) laptops ready to go, so failing that, I can still get on the internet, use my banks and brokerages, etc. even if my main computer has a total, say, motherboard failure.

All this protection takes a LITTLE work and roughly $1000 in hardware, including cases, drives, etc.

Given how inefficient government is, do corporations REALLY think that calling the FBI is going to rapidly get all their data back and get their systems operational again? Don't make me laugh.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'H')opefully they will trace back and locate the attackers and have Seal team five (six can't go every time) give them a fatal midnight visit.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'H')opefully they will trace back and locate the attackers and have Seal team five (six can't go every time) give them a fatal midnight visit.

[mousepad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')And yes, I walk the walk, not just talk it. I'm just a normal private user managing my own data, and I keep MANY copies of my key data files offline,

[Newfie]

Colonial is a “linear infrastructure”, they own their ROW and their facilities are distributed along same. Back in the 90’s and 00’s all the linear infrastructure outfits (pipelines, rrs, power grids) built out FO lines. Often they just out in conduits and then leased the pipe. Sometimes they got a certain amount of service or some fibers as part of the deal.

When you have a linear infrastructure, say a transit system, with a FO cable then you have the perfect opportunity to have a completely safe control system. There is absolutely no need to connect to the internet.

Most times the Owners in-house data people would require internet connections and thus create vulnerability. At least one client was smart enough to jot do that despite much pressure. Their vulnerability was the control center software. It was supplied by a vendor. The Owner paid to have a dedicated tech local and on call. But the CC vender still wanted a internet connection so that their home office folks could get into the system to make updates, fix bugs, and do maintenance.

For these closed type systems the internet is actually a very poor choice of technology, there are vastly better and more secure ways to do it. I was NEVER able to convince a client to not use the internet. And sometimes for insanely dumb reasons, like adjusting the volume of individual speakers in a large PA system.

TAKE AWAY:
Control system security is achievable, 100%. Getting people to implement it is almost impossible.

[mousepad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')TAKE AWAY:
Control system security is achievable, 100%.

[Plantagenet]

I find it very amusing to see all the supposedly "green" Bidenauts scurrying around desperately trying to reassure everyone that their oil and gas supply will go back to normal.

I thought one of the main goals of the Biden administration was to stop fracking and stop oil leasing and get people out of their cars and off oil and into clean EVs.

And here we are with a minor disruption to a small part of the nation's oil and gas infrastructure and its all hands on deck for the hypocritical Bidenauts to keep the oil flowing.

Do I hear talk from the hypocrite in the White House about how this is an opportunity for people to quit using fossil fuels and switch to EVs? No.

Do I hear talk from the hypocrite in the White House about how its good for the planet when people use less fossil fuels? No.

All I hear is the sound of little tiny hypocritical Joe Biden and his little tiny hypocritical Biden administration screaming in their shrill little tiny voices......"we'll get you your oil! Don't worry about a thing! Forget everything we said about moving away from fossil fuels The oil is coming! Joe Biden will get you all the wonderful wonderful oil you want!"


Is hypocritical Joe Biden using this opportunity to tell people to move off fossil fuels and and switch to EVs? Heck no......Joe Biden is out there blaming the Russians and telling folks not to worry because he's doing everything he can to get that wonderful oil flowing for them again

Cheers!

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')TAKE AWAY:
Control system security is achievable, 100%.

[mousepad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')
Hacking is still possible, but it requires a physical presence

[ROCKMAN]

Not sure if the Feds have the authority but as soon as such situations develop there should be a max purchase rule put into effect. I would bet lunch that there is not lack of gasoline/diesel anywhere on the East coast. This happens every time folks panic. Can go back and research the Great Arab Embargo of the 70's. And the BS theories of refineries hiding fuel etc took a year or 2 to finally be trashed. Turned out the was no lack of fuel...except at the gas stations. All that missing fuel was sitting in everyone's cars. Instead of filling once they got low (typically around 1/8 full) folks starting topping off when they got down to 1/2...or more.

Happened last time a big hurricane was heading to Houston. I filled up a few days before. And right before and after it came onshore many topped off and most stations went empty. Even with all the local refineries it didn't help: their tanks were full of fuel. But there are not enough tank trucks here to refill the stations all at once. I would drive to work and see lines of cars blocks long at stations. Some were empty with folks waiting for a tank truck to show up. And a week or so later: all the stations were once again full.

Gasoline does not flow directly from the CP to the gas stations. It's pumped to smaller lines that deliver it to fuel terminals. From there tanks trucks deliver to gas stations. How many terminals? Just a guess but probably dozens...many dozens. Probably many for each of the NE states that receive fuel from the CP. And how many tanks trucks are needed to haul to gas stations? Again a guess but I'm sure thousands...probably many thousands. I bet there are many fuel terminals with gasoline unable to deliver to many stations quickly due to lack of tank trucks.

Same reason stores ran out of TP when pandemic panic shopping kicked in. TP that wasn't delivered to commercial customers did not evaporate. LOL

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')And yes, I walk the walk, not just talk it. I'm just a normal private user managing my own data, and I keep MANY copies of my key data files offline,

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'B')ut while the attacks will happen, with assistance from the occasional insider, re bribes, etc, there is NO reason serious businesses can't BACK UP ALL their data EVERY DAY. In fact, if they're running a serious database like DB2, it can log all their data as each database gets updated.

So, there's no reason almost all or even 100% of data can't be recovered and TO HELL with the clowns who are bribing them.

Or even get smart and actually run the main business in a private virtual box, and just use the internet to communicate with the outside world, but NOT let it directly impact the key databases.

And yes, it will cost a bit more, but it makes the increasing rabble of criminals, including blackmailers, pretty much impotent.

I don't feel particularly sorry for supposedly serious businesses that rely on complex computer technology that can't be bothered to look 5 minutes (or 6 months) ahead and actually work to protect themselves.

And yes, I walk the walk, not just talk it. I'm just a normal private user managing my own data, and I keep MANY copies of my key data files offline, including some in a safe deposit box. And I keep multiple copies of my entire hard drive backed up in a cycle, should I get some nasty virus, so I can do a full recovery as easy as replacing 4 screws in 5 minutes. And I keep multiple (inexpensive) laptops ready to go, so failing that, I can still get on the internet, use my banks and brokerages, etc. even if my main computer has a total, say, motherboard failure.

All this protection takes a LITTLE work and roughly $1000 in hardware, including cases, drives, etc.

Given how inefficient government is, do corporations REALLY think that calling the FBI is going to rapidly get all their data back and get their systems operational again? Don't make me laugh.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'N')ot sure if the Feds have the authority but as soon as such situations develop there should be a max purchase rule put into effect. I would bet lunch that there is not lack of gasoline/diesel anywhere on the East coast. This happens every time folks panic. Can go back and research the Great Arab Embargo of the 70's. And the BS theories of refineries hiding fuel etc took a year or 2 to finally be trashed. Turned out the was no lack of fuel...except at the gas stations. All that missing fuel was sitting in everyone's cars. Instead of filling once they got low (typically around 1/8 full) folks starting topping off when they got down to 1/2...or more.

....

Same reason stores ran out of TP when pandemic panic shopping kicked in. TP that wasn't delivered to commercial customers did not evaporate. LOL

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mousepad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')
Hacking is still possible, but it requires a physical presence

[evilgenius]

The problem really has something to do with the tech world. Even there the importance of database is underappreciated.

Tech is run by programmers. They think differently than database or system designers. They think everything can be done in code. They love doing really cool stuff in code.

Designers implement those sorts of things in the design of the data itself, though. Done correctly, it means that there is never any reason to expose the database. Also, even if it is, it can be brought back up from a backup.

These sorts of stories are really about poor IT at high levels. That sort of poor IT creates this reliance upon people to cobble together something that faces the threats. You need to train people not to open email attachments and not respond to fishing offers to hook their passwords.

With a design based approach you have to train people too. You have to consider how to discipline your organization to make backups. No system can ever escape its reliance upon people. If that were tried, then people would change and the system would have to follow them anyway. The system is pointed at them. They will always matter.

I think ransomware is a symptom of an IT problem. The problem is that IT actually perceives itself in the same way that the untrained public does, as a code first endeavor. They leave too much room for this sort of thing because they don't want their ability to be heroes taken away from them. It makes them feel special. But design is the answer.

[Newfie]

Evil,

There are multiple levels of problems. I was talking about one on the physical implementation level, you are talking about a different level. Both are operative.

The underlying “problem” is a loss if task focus, not having or meeting a design brief. Being cheap and stupid should not be under estimated either.

[ROCKMAN]

newfie- Not sure if anyone explained even the very basic nature of the CP. At anyone time the line is pumping different compounds: gasolive, diesel, jet fuel, etc. And there are various entry points and exit points for different components. Obviously lots of computer power monitoring the process in real time. But local valve and pumping operations are run be real folks in real time. Lots of different pumping ops run along those 5,500 miles. And a different pressures. Main reason it takes a while to get the entire system moving at once. Get the pressure timing wrong and segment of the line could rupture. Actually happens from time to time on different lines without "help" from hackers.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Yes a pipeline is a perfect candidate for such a solution. I am assuming they have a access to dedicated fibers, not unlikely because they own the ROW and sell access to fiber companies.

Here is how it works. You have hour own fiber so you transmit your data via using a Time Domain technology: a T-1 line and if fancy over SONET. These circuits are very analogous to a copper pair, they travel from point A to B. They can be rerouted but not in the sense that a ethernet data stream is. The data all physically stays on your own fiber cable.