[onlooker]

To me the most fascinating aspect is the dynamic bifurcating the expediency of cooperation vs the competitive mandate or opportunities. Very quickly depending on the prevailing attitude and capabilites of others and the availability of resources, communities can become only your kin or tribe and survival of the fittest battles can ensue. Or if resources are sufficient and/or people are prepared and capable skill wise , a flourishing community can develop. Cooperation or Competition will be an existential choice thrust upon all

[sparky]

.
its an old dichotomy , to deal or to hit ,
it's a fluctuating conundrum whose main factors are power ,
either to be used or to be displayed to achieve a deal

in short ,violent take over or blackmail wrapped in fine words

[Revi]

I think a nice catalyst could be if those dummies down in DC can't come up with a vote on extending the debt ceiling. They have it hung up on all sorts of little things, meanwhile the whole edifice teeters. Imagine if we default on our debt. That would be the end of the present economic order and could be the catalyst for the economic collapse. As soon as they got Trump in they voted to borrow another trillion per year. If we don't put the debt ceiling up we won't be able to do that. I think they should put it up to at least 30 trillion just to keep the whole thing afloat for the next 10 years. There is still a debt ceiling vote looming.

http://thedailybanter.com/2017/01/senat ... -trillion/

[Revi]

Here's another article on it. They need 216 Republicans and about 8 democrats to pass it. We aren't hearing much about this, but there might be tea party Repubs and some Dems who won't go for it, and then we are in trouble.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/conse ... le/2619039

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'H')ere's another article on it. They need 216 Republicans and about 8 democrats to pass it. We aren't hearing much about this, but there might be tea party Repubs and some Dems who won't go for it, and then we are in trouble.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/conse ... le/2619039

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('baha', 'G')hung, when you put it that way it should pass with no problem. There are plenty of can-kickers in DC. What are the odds it is done by midnight tonight?

[Pops]

I was just browsing and came across this from Tanada.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'O')kay is the weak point in our Economies the Electrical grid? As per the "olduvai cliff". The financial markets? International commerce and trade? What will be the initial straw that will break the Economies back? Perhaps something exogenous to the Economy ?

[evilgenius]

At this time, I think I would have to say it is the thing which really supported Trump: the people's doubt, which is the most likely catalyst. Narcissism is at an all time high, since the internet has allowed us much freer communication. We still don't talk about the dangers inherent to that.

The first danger is how easily duped we can be by people who come across as certain about what it is they espouse. Maybe they taught you a little bit about how to assign credibility to various actors in your life's drama in elementary school, but they could not have taught you enough. No one ever dreamed we would wind up in today's world.

And it was back then, when the fabric of how we think was developed, that we needed those lessons. Not having learned those lessons, it's kind of every man for himself. But you can bet that each new direction the people take in the middle of all this has some person at the heart of it who is certain about their convictions. Too many of us look at that alone, and give those people the sort of credence they do not deserve.

Depending upon the people's relationship with fear, whether they are driven too much by their fears, decisions could be made. When the people use fear to make decisions they are often irrational, so we can expect our world to become more and more irrational, not less.

[AdamB]

Here it is: all debt is borrowed against future supplies of affordable hydrocarbons (oil, coal and natural gas). Since global economic activity is ultimately dependent on a continued abundance of affordable energy, it follows that all money borrowed against future income is actually being borrowed against future supplies of affordable energy.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'a')ll debt is borrowed against future supplies of affordable hydrocarbons

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CHS', '&')quot;Money" without access to affordable energy is worthless.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', ' ')Pretty sure none of us know how bad that could be.

[Pops]

The people who are supposed to know say we need to reduce carbon big-time right-now, so the population collapse is good for earth longer term, if we don't sterilize it near term.

One of my granddaughters is around 23-ish and her and her partner are buying up desert scrubland in Eastern Oregon, doing an off-grid homestead thing and commuting to work at Applebee's—they are on Pop's Hippy Homestead Back To The Land Book a month club. I'm proud of her and her rebellious ways. Hard to know if her time or my other granddaughter's time in college is better spent.

I can only compare the two that way because no one here knows me, lol

[Ibon]

My daughters and their peer groups are very very focused as well on homesteading, low energy consumption, climate change, etc. If I focus on the way they approach these topics vs how I did when I was their age there is a world of difference. In my old hippy days this was something cool and counter culture. In the case of my daughters generation, at least those with whom I am exposed, this seems less about counter culture and more like a mainstream value. I see more sobriety and maturity and less rebellion. More collectivism also in how this generation approaches solidarity around social distancing with the pandemic etc. My one criticism when compared to my youth is that I see more fear with these concerns and more seriousness. In my youth I was much less fearful, more individualistic, more singing the wilderness ethos and less collectivist.

I don't judge, I observe and I am well aware I may be only observing a slice of their generation that might not be representative of the whole.

I despair often of how social media herds the young generation but sometimes if I take a positive view of this herding I recognize it might be a force toward a more collectivist approach towards dealing in a serious way with limits of growth and sustainability.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')I don't judge, I observe and I am well aware I may be only observing a slice of their generation that might not be representative of the whole.

[Pops]

Social media / my little homestead blog / channel / insta/fb group/etccccc. gives reinforcement to niche "influencers".

GD in the high desert is experimenting with it. People dig videos of chicks ... the poultry kind too. I tried to do that but wasn't into it enough, it wasn't very lucrative back when either pre-fb/insta/etc.

Ibon, do you do that kind of thing? Video channel etc?

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')
Ibon, do you do that kind of thing? Video channel etc?

[Pops]

Thanks.

[diemos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'E')ither that debt will be inflated away, a scarier possibility every day, or it will be defaulted on, there is no chance the smaller population will be able to pay it off. A default would be the Real Reset. Pretty sure none of us know how bad that could be.