PeakOil is You
the Doomer outlook
Re: the Doomer outlook
by OutcastPhilosopher » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 13:01:25
Progress is a HOAX
The hand that gives is above the hand that takes
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Re: the Doomer outlook
by Ibon » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 17:31:53
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', ' ')But when I express a conservative viewpoint on globalism, the anti-science stances of the D party on certain topics, or a belief in national borders being a key to economic security none of my background or the way I treat other human beings matters because it is assumed I am a deplorable-racist-sexist-homophobic-mysoginist.
Here is why I am so sick and tired of social media. If you have 20 people reading a position you post and 1 of the 20 fires back an extreme position pegging you as deplorable this is what at the end of the day you end up engaging with or remembering. The other 19 may have read what you wrote and accepted your position remaining relatively silent. That reality creates the impression of intolerance on the other side because the only voices that get through are those that bark the loudest with intolerance. A specific example I can remember when you pointed out anti science positions of D's as a very good rebuttal to a statement I once made about republicans being anti science. Had someone pegged you as partisan for stating that you probably would have remembered that and not have been aware that your message was acknowledged by those who remain silent or don't bark back. In a diner or cafe face to face body language communicates a lot regarding folks who acknowledge and confirm a point that in social media you don't ever see.
Social media filters through the loudest assholes. Digital media and algorithms favor conflict and grievances. The news media reports on the extremes of movements. What else do folks conclude then that their adversaries are intolerant toward their positions. We have to be aware how the flow of information favors extreme positions. I read about all this intolerance about the Black Lives Matter movement on social media and then I talk to my daughter deeply involved with these issues in Oakland California and the difference is insane. Why is that? Exactly because of what I wrote above. And specific to that, your blue workers in Ohio who have been disenfranchised for the past 30 years and the inner city minorities suffering similar economic disruptions should be on the same side in addressing the inequalities and disparities of wealth and the culpability of globalism and lobbyists. As long as rural whites in Ohio are racists and BLM participants in Oregon or California are part of some woke culture of extremists then those elites in power have us all exactly where they want us. And we all know, everyone of us here on this site, when you stop and really sit back and think about it, the vast majority of folks on either side of these issues are not extremists and quite well meaning. Their voices do not get through the filter. Only assholes seem to pass through. We have enough of those even on this site as to make me lose interest hanging around. Given enough time only assholes remain!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou need to understand that the economy of Ohio and the surrounding states was moribund from 2006-2016. However very early in 2017 things took off here in a big way. Construction went up both commercial and residential. Jobs were suddenly recruiting workers erasing the "permanent" unemployment we had been told to accept. Until Covid shut downs things here were booming in ways we had not seen since 1990. Industrial plants that were running one shift part time were suddenly running a shift full time and in some instance putting on a second shift. Every state bordering Ohio had the same thing happen from western Pennsylvania, Kentucky, West Virginia, Indiana and Michigan and beyond. This is the part of the nation where manufacturing was/is the bread and butter for the working class and for about 30 years we have been sneeringly referred to as the "rust belt" by the mainstream media because our industrial plant was being shipped off to China and we were told to accept the future as low paid service workers if we could not afford a Masters degree level education in some field most folks here have no aptitude for or they would already be following that career path.
You need to help me understand something here. You wrote this suggesting that Trump was responsible for this resurgence of the economy in Ohio. Where there really specific policies that came out of his administration that opened up the economy post 2016? I would be very interested to understand that and what can be preserved moving forward.
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Re: the Doomer outlook
by Newfie » Mon 21 Dec 2020, 18:36:10
A quite good interchange there.
T is interesting but I have been doing this, gently applauding folks for there posts, for some little while.
To your point Ibon when I do this I always feel a but funny, who am I to be praising? Am I positioning myself as an authority figure and is my praise the equivalent of a teacher giving a good star?
And yet if we don't support one another, at least occasionally, are we not falling into the “loudest ass hole” trap you mention?
Writing this I was thinking of discussions in the British Parliament. There the custom is for Parliamentarians to respond as the speaker delivers his address. There are snide and rather rude comments but also shouts of support. To my American ears it sounds pretty awful, but maybe there is something more refined about that method.
T is interesting but I have been doing this, gently applauding folks for there posts, for some little while.
To your point Ibon when I do this I always feel a but funny, who am I to be praising? Am I positioning myself as an authority figure and is my praise the equivalent of a teacher giving a good star?
And yet if we don't support one another, at least occasionally, are we not falling into the “loudest ass hole” trap you mention?
Writing this I was thinking of discussions in the British Parliament. There the custom is for Parliamentarians to respond as the speaker delivers his address. There are snide and rather rude comments but also shouts of support. To my American ears it sounds pretty awful, but maybe there is something more refined about that method.
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Re: the Doomer outlook
by REAL Green » Tue 22 Dec 2020, 06:54:12
The environmental and woke liberal are for centralization talked about in the referenced article. This is by instinct in necessity. This is because honest science is telling us time is of the essence with the climate and global ecosystem. So, with this group of modern liberals who are very educated they feel the end justifies the means because of necessity. Contracts found in the rule of law and Fair play is the baby thrown out with the bathwater because of necessity.
Woke is especially dubious. I would say absurd. I can relate to the environmental liberal but I see right through the reactionary racism of the woke crew. They are liars using racist tactics to supposedly correct racism. What they are doing is just polarizing and poisoning the body politics ensuring racism will be enshrined in the peoples mindscape for the coming crisis of civilization. This will mean the “them” instead of the us in the future. The “them” of finger pointing and attacking instead of the Us of common sacrifice.
I won’t even elaborate on wokism that is a lie and farce. The more important point is the environmental liberal who does have a point. The problem is the physics of a green transition are dubious. I would say fantasy. I would say we are boxed in not only hitting a brick wall. The GND is just digging the hole deeper. Renewables are already being introduced and with checks and balances unlike what the GND will do. Biden administration will not dive into the GND because they don’t believe in it. They don’t believe in woke either. It is all about the power of divide and conquer of the Deep State. Biden is a corpse and if Harris gets in, she is just a puppet. We saw what she was made of in the primaries.
This is then where the great “Reset” comes in. The clique of Billionaires or the global Oligarchy are offering Blue America the option of realizing their goals and the modern liberal is buying this siren song. They will give up their rights and privacy for their dreams. Let’s face it sacrifice is what is ahead not the flying pigs of the techno optimist of a green revolution of a woke world of safetyism.
There is so much talk about the Trump deplorable and in many cases, they are deplorable but what is so hypocritical is liberalism has become deplorable. Please don’t tell me Antifa and BLM are freedom fighters. They are Brown Shirts. Notice how these grass roots effort shut down immediately once the Blue handlers told them to be quiet! The modern liberals are supposed to be educated and adults but instead they are showing a lack of education and moral depravity.
I am a liberal environmentalist and what I am seeing from the new liberal environmentalist is you have to be woke to be green. WTF, please, that is absurd and a huge detour that will just jackknife the effort. Another issue is being honest about the science is one thing but then delusional about the science of solutions quite another. IOW 1*0 is Zero. Don’t tell me honesty is also banking on false solutions just because you are honest there is a problem. Sounds like the late stage unreformable alcoholic.
This next article points to all this coming to a head in the next few years. It appears the system won this fight. Another word for it is Deep State. They won illegally and with no moral high ground to carry with them. Sacrifice is coming and what will happen is wealth and power transfer to their group. It will be taken from Red America because, you know they are deplorable and deserve it. We the Blue America are the righteous one that are going to save the planet and right the wrongs of racism. BUNK.
So, Marxism and Fascism will be used to attain the results desired by Blue America in the guise of compassionate socialism. What is really at work is the clique of Billionaires will be cementing their power base at all levels except with a large amount of the people. Something similar is happening in Europe. The China project is already done with dictator XI and a road map to power for the Clique. Russia is a unique in that they are a Mafia nation that is very nationalistic and rightly so. The next fight is for global hegemony that could eclipse this internal fight in the US and Europe. But right now all eyes are on the US.
This is why I point to civilization coming apart. This is no way to confront the decline ahead. This current “Reset” will make it worse because what has happened is lies and lies poison. Polarization is much less an issue than poison. Polarization is people holding their cherished ideas up against others. Poison is theft and lies that destroy.
“Europe’s Machiavellian Moment”
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... an-moment/
It is still too early to say, but perhaps the U.S. election is the beginning of a new ‘Turning’ (in the sense of the ‘Fourth Turning’). Of course, what happens in the U.S. is most people’s primary focus now; but even as that plays out over the coming year – perhaps chaotically – the seeds sown on 3 November, and in its aftermath, take us to a pivot: Does the centralising project of progressive ‘wokedom’ in Blue America…have the ‘grit’ to persevere – or will its leaders fold in the face of the approaching crises – and concomitant public anger? The Project has three main pivots: the centralisation of Big Tech and MSM; the concentration of banking and financial tech, within centralised Central Banking…What is so significant about the U.S. election; what is so significant about the last four topsy-turvy years in Washington, has been the casting aside of all illusion of democracy, and the blunt demonstration that real power is exercised by a clique of billionaires. Europeans with little by way of independent news may be the last to notice. But for sure, China, Russia, Latin America – and the Middle East, which has suffered the most from America’s and Europe’s ‘moral’ sieges and wars – have taken due note. They will not further put up with European or American moral hectoring. We may look back, and conclude that the post-war era effectively came to its end on 3 November. What happened? For most Americans, if asked what it was that made them American, they likely would mumble about the Constitution, about its’ first and fifth Amendments, about its founding ethos. But the courts, and the institutions of America have ‘moved on’ under the influence of an activism that amends old rules to seal-in ‘new values’…Well, thanks to the ‘Great Disrupter’ (Trump), as David Stockman is wont to call him, many Americans have come to the settled view that their votes matter naught in eyes of those navigating ‘the centralisation project’. That there is scant accountability to it, and that all benefits accrue to the oligarchy. They feel disenfranchised – and are angry. What they are traumatically experiencing, though, is the planned transition from ‘the politics of rules’ to the era of coerced consensus – as Middelaar so proudly outlined it. The ‘Project’s modus operandi of a seemingly ‘depoliticised’ progress towards centralization, however, has crashed into the ever-unpredictable ‘rock’ of Trump. He intends to drive straight through – and past – the election ‘fraud’…U.S. politics today is not just polarized, it is poisoned…Again the question is: Are these élites as solid and as confident as they seem? When the recessionary crisis truly strikes, and anger explodes, will they fumble it? Trump and his supporters may conclude that precisely will be the moment to go to the streets.
Woke is especially dubious. I would say absurd. I can relate to the environmental liberal but I see right through the reactionary racism of the woke crew. They are liars using racist tactics to supposedly correct racism. What they are doing is just polarizing and poisoning the body politics ensuring racism will be enshrined in the peoples mindscape for the coming crisis of civilization. This will mean the “them” instead of the us in the future. The “them” of finger pointing and attacking instead of the Us of common sacrifice.
I won’t even elaborate on wokism that is a lie and farce. The more important point is the environmental liberal who does have a point. The problem is the physics of a green transition are dubious. I would say fantasy. I would say we are boxed in not only hitting a brick wall. The GND is just digging the hole deeper. Renewables are already being introduced and with checks and balances unlike what the GND will do. Biden administration will not dive into the GND because they don’t believe in it. They don’t believe in woke either. It is all about the power of divide and conquer of the Deep State. Biden is a corpse and if Harris gets in, she is just a puppet. We saw what she was made of in the primaries.
This is then where the great “Reset” comes in. The clique of Billionaires or the global Oligarchy are offering Blue America the option of realizing their goals and the modern liberal is buying this siren song. They will give up their rights and privacy for their dreams. Let’s face it sacrifice is what is ahead not the flying pigs of the techno optimist of a green revolution of a woke world of safetyism.
There is so much talk about the Trump deplorable and in many cases, they are deplorable but what is so hypocritical is liberalism has become deplorable. Please don’t tell me Antifa and BLM are freedom fighters. They are Brown Shirts. Notice how these grass roots effort shut down immediately once the Blue handlers told them to be quiet! The modern liberals are supposed to be educated and adults but instead they are showing a lack of education and moral depravity.
I am a liberal environmentalist and what I am seeing from the new liberal environmentalist is you have to be woke to be green. WTF, please, that is absurd and a huge detour that will just jackknife the effort. Another issue is being honest about the science is one thing but then delusional about the science of solutions quite another. IOW 1*0 is Zero. Don’t tell me honesty is also banking on false solutions just because you are honest there is a problem. Sounds like the late stage unreformable alcoholic.
This next article points to all this coming to a head in the next few years. It appears the system won this fight. Another word for it is Deep State. They won illegally and with no moral high ground to carry with them. Sacrifice is coming and what will happen is wealth and power transfer to their group. It will be taken from Red America because, you know they are deplorable and deserve it. We the Blue America are the righteous one that are going to save the planet and right the wrongs of racism. BUNK.
So, Marxism and Fascism will be used to attain the results desired by Blue America in the guise of compassionate socialism. What is really at work is the clique of Billionaires will be cementing their power base at all levels except with a large amount of the people. Something similar is happening in Europe. The China project is already done with dictator XI and a road map to power for the Clique. Russia is a unique in that they are a Mafia nation that is very nationalistic and rightly so. The next fight is for global hegemony that could eclipse this internal fight in the US and Europe. But right now all eyes are on the US.
This is why I point to civilization coming apart. This is no way to confront the decline ahead. This current “Reset” will make it worse because what has happened is lies and lies poison. Polarization is much less an issue than poison. Polarization is people holding their cherished ideas up against others. Poison is theft and lies that destroy.
“Europe’s Machiavellian Moment”
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... an-moment/
It is still too early to say, but perhaps the U.S. election is the beginning of a new ‘Turning’ (in the sense of the ‘Fourth Turning’). Of course, what happens in the U.S. is most people’s primary focus now; but even as that plays out over the coming year – perhaps chaotically – the seeds sown on 3 November, and in its aftermath, take us to a pivot: Does the centralising project of progressive ‘wokedom’ in Blue America…have the ‘grit’ to persevere – or will its leaders fold in the face of the approaching crises – and concomitant public anger? The Project has three main pivots: the centralisation of Big Tech and MSM; the concentration of banking and financial tech, within centralised Central Banking…What is so significant about the U.S. election; what is so significant about the last four topsy-turvy years in Washington, has been the casting aside of all illusion of democracy, and the blunt demonstration that real power is exercised by a clique of billionaires. Europeans with little by way of independent news may be the last to notice. But for sure, China, Russia, Latin America – and the Middle East, which has suffered the most from America’s and Europe’s ‘moral’ sieges and wars – have taken due note. They will not further put up with European or American moral hectoring. We may look back, and conclude that the post-war era effectively came to its end on 3 November. What happened? For most Americans, if asked what it was that made them American, they likely would mumble about the Constitution, about its’ first and fifth Amendments, about its founding ethos. But the courts, and the institutions of America have ‘moved on’ under the influence of an activism that amends old rules to seal-in ‘new values’…Well, thanks to the ‘Great Disrupter’ (Trump), as David Stockman is wont to call him, many Americans have come to the settled view that their votes matter naught in eyes of those navigating ‘the centralisation project’. That there is scant accountability to it, and that all benefits accrue to the oligarchy. They feel disenfranchised – and are angry. What they are traumatically experiencing, though, is the planned transition from ‘the politics of rules’ to the era of coerced consensus – as Middelaar so proudly outlined it. The ‘Project’s modus operandi of a seemingly ‘depoliticised’ progress towards centralization, however, has crashed into the ever-unpredictable ‘rock’ of Trump. He intends to drive straight through – and past – the election ‘fraud’…U.S. politics today is not just polarized, it is poisoned…Again the question is: Are these élites as solid and as confident as they seem? When the recessionary crisis truly strikes, and anger explodes, will they fumble it? Trump and his supporters may conclude that precisely will be the moment to go to the streets.
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Re: the Doomer outlook
by Pops » Tue 22 Dec 2020, 09:35:35
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'O')h that's an easy one. I am a Christian right of center person and when I express conservative views on any subject I get labeled with the above accusations and many more as a reflex response. Not being of those viewpoints is irrelevant because the people who assume I hold them discount everything else I say using my purported illeberal positions on those issues as the basis for ignoring everything else I espouse.
You describe exactly the conclusion I've reached after 4 years of trying to figure out trumps appeal. You say it's because of your various conservative views that people unfairly lump you in with the Republican deplorables. I think it is deeper than that. I think you feel people look down their nose at who you are not just what you say. You describe how the hoity-toity costal elites disparage all non-college blue collar workers, especially Ohioans, the "rust belt", religion, whatever conservative ideology. You feel like the underclass now.
When Clinton stole the Rs thunder by abandoning labor and new deal social democracy to tap the pockets of the new educated meritocracy, the supra-nationals and their FIRE economy, he gave the Rs no choice but to go all Gingrichy radical right—where else were they to go? Trumpublicans are what Republicans have wanted to be for 30 years, through BushCo, the tea party, freedom caucus, etc, they never wanted fiscal discipline or compassionate conservatives or Chamber of Commerce candidates like Boner and Romney. They wanted someone to make the libs cry, if nothing else to avenge their own perceived loss of station—that is trumpism and it is republicanism now.
And it has parallels in resurgent populism around the world.
That is the Doomer Outlook
.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: the Doomer outlook
by Ibon » Tue 22 Dec 2020, 10:13:55
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'O')h that's an easy one. I am a Christian right of center person and when I express conservative views on any subject I get labeled with the above accusations and many more as a reflex response. Not being of those viewpoints is irrelevant because the people who assume I hold them discount everything else I say using my purported illeberal positions on those issues as the basis for ignoring everything else I espouse.
You describe exactly the conclusion I've reached after 4 years of trying to figure out trumps appeal. You say it's because of your various conservative views that people unfairly lump you in with the Republican deplorables. I think it is deeper than that. I think you feel people look down their nose at who you are not just what you say. You describe how the hoity-toity costal elites disparage all non-college blue collar workers, especially Ohioans, the "rust belt", religion, whatever conservative ideology. You feel like the underclass now.
When Clinton stole the Rs thunder by abandoning labor and new deal social democracy to tap the pockets of the new educated meritocracy, the supra-nationals and their FIRE economy, he gave the Rs no choice but to go all Gingrichy radical right—where else were they to go? Trumpublicans are what Republicans have wanted to be for 30 years, through BushCo, the tea party, freedom caucus, etc, they never wanted fiscal discipline or compassionate conservatives or Chamber of Commerce candidates like Boner and Romney. They wanted someone to make the libs cry, if nothing else to avenge their own perceived loss of station—that is trumpism and it is republicanism now.
And it has parallels in resurgent populism around the world.
That is the Doomer Outlook
.
You commented on this previously and it is a very good assessment. Trumps rise is an indictment of the democratic party since Clinton abandoned the working class for Wallstreet elites. Probably he was bragging about how he played the Republicans at their own game during one of his trips to Eppsteins whorehouse in the Bahamas. And of course this was all in retaliation on how Gingrich and Kenneth Star did everything to fuck over Clinton.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou feel like the underclass now.
Trump's instincts in playing race card was tapping right into this.
What you see is all this Machiavellian games playing on humans most basic primitive lizard brain instincts. Facebook does it as well with their algorithms.
We have the media, politicians and advertisers all agitating our darkest ego instincts instead of a more enlightened altruism of calling for unity.
I am a typical cynical aging baby boomer but I do not buy into the narrative that as civilizations decline environmental feedbacks start pinching that the only human response is appealing to the primitive. That is the lazy way.
Patiently awaiting the pathogens. Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
