[Graeme]

Economic growth is green

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')un 31 Jul 2005
THE Kyoto Protocol? That was so last century. Even the Japanese, who founded it, have moved on to the next big thing. The plastic wristbands aren't yet printed, but the new logo is complete: growth is green.
Last week, a new environment pact was agreed in Laos by India, China, South Korea, Australia, Japan and the US: to go for economic growth and use the proceeds to produce new, clean energy technology.
The Laos deal argues growth is the solution to the environmental problems. The creed behind last week's deal was that economic growth - not placing shackles on energy consumption - is the best way to helping the environment. Growth is not only good: growth will save the planet.

[merecat]

This is bullshit, it reminds me of when many consumer products started to print a big green recyclable logo on their products, but still the product would be wrapped in a cellophane bag, that was sat in a vacuum formed plastic tray that was sat in a colour printed cardboard box and the sticker touted "this product is environmentaly friendly" because you could push the packaging back through a recycling plant, well shit, why dont we quadruple the amount of packaging in order to increase the green-nes even further!

[Kaare_Mai]

Most people, including journalists and politicians will never get it:

Growth is not sustainable! How can these 4 words be sooo hard to grasp?

That Laos deal is nothing but bullshit and excuses to continue wasting our planet and use up mother natures dear resources.

Our world is truly lead by Fools & Idiots Inc. (tm)

[linlithgowoil]

i think people need to realise - 'mother natures resources' are self replenishing. therefore, some growth is sustainable.

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('linlithgowoil', 'i') think people need to realise - 'mother natures resources' are self replenishing. therefore, some growth is sustainable.

[Sys1]

"Economic growth is green"

Reminds me some sentences in "1984" like "WAR IS PEACE; FREEDOM IS SLAVER, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH"...
They are absolutely crazy, those people are far more dangerous than Al Qaeda.

[jaws]

Economic growth can be green if natural resources are managed properly. The rest of the economy will then adapt itself to the green resource management and productivity will grow from it.

[Raxozanne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Climate change deal better than Kyoto: Howard
Prime Minister John Howard says the agreement on climate change formally announced in Laos is a significantly better than the Kyoto Protocol on reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

The pact has been made with the United States, India, China, Japan and South Korea.

Mr Howard says the agreement puts more emphasis on new technologies aimed at reducing the greenhouse gas emissions from the use of fossil fuels.

"It is a matter of the national interest and of common sense that Australia should associate herself very vigorously with such a process," he said.

[Kaare_Mai]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')conomic growth can be green if natural resources are managed properly. The rest of the economy will then adapt itself to the green resource management and productivity will grow from it.

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaare_Mai', 'A')nd again: Growth is NEVER sustainable

By saying growth can be green and sustainable you're saying that using more and more and more resources and space to an increasing population which is essential to growth, is something that is in balance with mother nature? It sounds like some people on this earth thinks that earth itself grows by 3% per year

[linlithgowoil]

also - economic growth doesnt necessarily mean using ever more resources. efficiency and new ways of doing things can work wonders. people on here always dismiss technology - but it has worked wonders in the past and will continue to in the future. we waste a lot of our energy. petrol engines are about 30% efficient. if we have to, we'll easily use the energy mor efficiently. we just havent had to yet, because its been so abundant and cheap.

[Rincewind]

It depends how you define economic growth. The commonly accepted view is increasing GDP is a measure of economic improvement (and social well being).

This of course is crap. Even the inventor of the GDP methodology, Simon Kuznets (yes him) stated

‘The welfare of a nation can scarcely be inferred from a measurement of national income…’

Speaking to the U.S. Congress (1934).

GDP does not measure the loss of natural capital so we don't know if our increasing human capital is offsetting any loss (assuming you believe that human capital and natural capital are fully substitutable).

GDP measures expenditure on 'bads' such as cleaning up after pollution spills as contributing to the economy. Every time an ambulance rushes out to a car crash that is helping economic growth.

Basically GDP measures the speed of the economy not its quality.

Herman Daly and others have attempted to propose alternative economic improvement models (i.e. Steady State economy). These basically argue that economic improvement must be divorced from increased consumption of resources (natural and human) and move to increasing the quality of production. So instead of producing more produce less, but better and to last longer.

But I bet everyone here has thought along those lines anyway.

Cheers Rincewind

[jtmorgan61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')limate change deal better than Kyoto: Howard
Prime Minister John Howard says the agreement on climate change formally announced in Laos is a significantly better than the Kyoto Protocol on reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

The pact has been made with the United States, India, China, Japan and South Korea.

Mr Howard says the agreement puts more emphasis on new technologies aimed at reducing the greenhouse gas emissions from the use of fossil fuels.

"It is a matter of the national interest and of common sense that Australia should associate herself very vigorously with such a process," he said.

[merecat]

Sys1: 1984 is now oh yes!

The world is truly our of balance and I can't think of anything that will bring it back in trim

The fire that is the "free" market burns mercilessly through the beautiful body that is the planet Earth, some people shout "She's screaming! Quench the flames with water!" whilst others chant, their brains stupified by the virus, "More fire! More fire! We can do anything, we just need more fire!".

The irony is that if any human were in the Earths position, i.e. infested with troublesome parasites that bored into their body to greedily feast on their blood, then the human host would more than likely apply a topical treatment of parasite killing cream straight away, get an early night and hope it was all better in the morning!

The cornucopian unlimited growth mantra always reminds of that marvelous Escher drawing, where the zombie like drones walk round the tower top, always marching up the stairs but never getting any higher, you'd think they'd cotton on after a few laps:

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')erman Daly and others have attempted to propose alternative economic improvement models (i.e. Steady State economy). These basically argue that economic improvement must be divorced from increased consumption of resources (natural and human) and move to increasing the quality of production. So instead of producing more produce less, but better and to last longer.

[Kaare_Mai]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')lso - economic growth doesnt necessarily mean using ever more resources. efficiency and new ways of doing things can work wonders. people on here always dismiss technology - but it has worked wonders in the past and will continue to in the future. we waste a lot of our energy. petrol engines are about 30% efficient. if we have to, we'll easily use the energy mor efficiently. we just havent had to yet, because its been so abundant and cheap.

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'w')ait a minute. Isn't human wealth outhouses, and running water, and Ipods? Don't these require more resources and space?

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'o')h that's right. Ipods are going to save the world. I hear that the next model is under development. Stever Jobs said that it has cold fusion battery, AI tuning (it figures out what you want to hear), neural network volume, and nanotech hand grips. ah can't wait!