[duke3522]

Does anyone here have an opinion as to whether or not the Boy Scouts are continuing to serve the purpose for which the organization was created? Scouting was created because Scouting founders believed that young boys, mainly in the cities, were not learning basic survival skills that they would need during any future military service.

In the past learning to build a fire, outdoor cooking, proper camp setup, axe and knife use and safety, and other outdoor skills were the basic reason young men became scouts. I personally know the values of these skills having been able to start a small fire when myself and some friends were trapped in a blizzard.

But now I hear of little real wood craft being taught due to insurance problems and other concerns. I have also heard rumors (from some friend who are scout leaders) that there is more and more pressure to beef up the religious aspects of scouting. Not that a little religion is bad, but the BSA is suppose to be pretty much open to ALL boys, and those that little or no spiritual guidance in life probably need to be in the BSA the most. Back in my day we had a little prayer at the beginning of the meeting, but besides that we worked on our survival and citizenship skills.

Due to PO, GW and other factors, in the near future many people may be in need of the very survival skills that the BSA use to teach so well. Now I am sure that there are some troops with good leadership that are still teaching basic survival skills, but the recent tragedy at the National Jamboree does not fill me confidence. LINK

[pup55]

It's hard to blame the scouts. Looks to me like the leaders are idiots.

It's probably hard to find a scout leader nowadays that (a) knows anything (b) is not wanted by the law or a pedophile or something (c) is willing and able to spend the time (d) willing to put up with a lot of annoying early teenage boys and hovering moms for any length of time.

So the guys that end up as the scout leaders are likely to be pretty close to the bottom of the barrel (with rare exceptions) and /or have some "gaps", as it were, in their own outdoorsy abilities, i.e. not smart enough to know not to pitch a tent directly under power lines and to pack a canteen and wear hats when going to a big outdoor event with no shade.

To be sure, the kids are bound to be squishy as well. This is also a
leadership issue as it applies to the home front.

The whole situation is a potential disaster for the future as these type of skills eventually die out.

[Daculling]

Leadership problem but also a liability problem. I was only a cub scout, as far as survival training... none. They gave me a knife and a hatch and told me if there be wood you should cut it. Spent most of my time engineering the fastest soapbox derby. I never uderstood "Den Moms". Why shoud women be in charge of rasing "Men". Didn't matter we all just played D&D while the moms made us cookies. Guess times have changed. Seames to me that the organiztion was created to replace something else that was lost, like maybe..... family.

[NeoPeasant]

I don't know much about the boy scouts as an organization these days, but I did pick up an older boy scout manual at a swap meet shortly after becoming peak oil aware. I remembered from looking at my older brother's manual as a kid there was a lot of useful wilderness survival and first aid stuff in it.

[fossil_fuel]

as an eagle scout, i can say that there was instruction on a lot of survival-related stuff, but a lot of it was glossed over and most of it was common sense. we didn't really go out and get a lot of experience with it in the field.

[jdmartin]

I was in the boy scouts as a kid.

I generally remember it as a pretty good experience, not overtly religious, and fun. It did not, however, prepare me for any kind of wilderness anything. We spent most of our time figuring out how to go to the next patch and how to win games and contests. The whole thing seemed kind of like a perpetual competition to me.

Den mothers didn't do jack when I was in it. As someone said, they made cookies while we goofed off.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's probably hard to find a scout leader nowadays that (a) knows anything (b) is not wanted by the law or a pedophile or something (c) is willing and able to spend the time (d) willing to put up with a lot of annoying early teenage boys and hovering moms for any length of time.

[savethehumans]

I was darkly amused by a statement in a story about the ill-fated Jamboree. Someone remarked, after the heat-exhaustion incident, that Boy Scout Jamboree leadership should've figured that it would be hot in July in Virginia. . . .

[OldSprocket]

Another Eagle Scout here. My troop didn't study much actual "survival" beyond making sassafras tea. And trying to keep warm in winter. Or not get too covered in mud on a rainy weekend. We did go camping one weekend every month and a week every June. There were open places we used in summer weather and sheltered places for winter. I value very highly the experiences I had camping as a scout.

My troop didn't seem to be too military or too religious though there was a light frosting of both. I became disillusioned with the 1972 urbanization of the organization. If the organization doesn't take boys camping then it discards its core.

I had a different idea about the start of scouting than duke3522. I thought Baden-Powell thought boys needed to be out in nature with competent guidance. I could very easily be wrong on this.

[killJOY]

I was a total white-bread scout as a kid.

Now I'm a big queer!

There's no relationship, of course. We held meetings in the basement of the catholic church. {stop it! I'm serious.}

Yes we were nasty, but no more so than "normal." We're all too busy competing for merit badges than thinking about sex. And it's all too public.

Prepare to live in the wilderness? HAHAHAHAHA!


You're going to HAVE to read a biography of Lord Baden-Powell, the founder of the scouts. He was a pederast who liked to hang out in swimming holes with naked youths.

Not that there's anything wrong with that....

[wilburke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nother Eagle Scout here. My troop didn't study much actual "survival" beyond making sassafras tea. And trying to keep warm in winter. Or not get too covered in mud on a rainy weekend. We did go camping one weekend every month and a week every June. There were open places we used in summer weather and sheltered places for winter. I value very highly the experiences I had camping as a scout.

My troop didn't seem to be too military or too religious though there was a light frosting of both. I became disillusioned with the 1972 urbanization of the organization. If the organization doesn't take boys camping then it discards its core.

[Aaron]

BS as well...

(lol)

Dad was from small town, rural America and so by the time I got to scouts I was already educated in wilderness skills.

The scouts did cover basic survival in the field when I was in, (more than 35 years ago), but the advent of the "Photography Merit badge" pretty much put that to rest.

Just another example of your Gynocracy at work for you!

[goetic_neuromancer]

Yeah I too am an Eagle Scout. Im 24 now and got into scouting when I was 11 in '91 (Troop 800 in Midlothian VA) and made eagle at 17. I must say that boy scouts is largely responsible for my interest and continued education in wilderness survival and self sufficiancy living. We went camping at least once a month and I had some pretty excellent survival training while in it. However as I aged and went to more events in the wider world of scouting rather than just inter-troop activities I realized that my troop was an anacronism with many x-military men as scout leaders. we had more contry boys leading and as older scouts than we had surburban raised stock brokers and kids that are video game champs. some adults were eagle scouts themselves and most were intermediate outdoorsmen if not expert. the area we were located in was just being touched by suburbia at the time and our district was on the edge of rural back then. we had a private troop campground for years. Lots of hunters and we had good NRA training in firearms. This is not the case in most of scouting. someone else mentioned the urbanization of scouting material and the movement itself. To me this is Anethma to the true meaning and intent behind this dying organization. Recently, 2 years ago, I worked at Goshen Scout Reservation In Lexington VA. Great camp if any of you are scouts or dads. Excellent staff, great facilities, poor funding but one of the best outdoor experiences for kids 13-17. However the pc-liablity limiting national office with their bueacracy has destroyed real survival training. I was a Scoutcraft Area director, as well as a merit badge instructor for Wilderness Survival merit badge, as well as Pioneering, First Aid, Canoeing, Orienteering, and Emergency Preparedness merit badges. I also happen to be a Wilderness survival expert (not to mention an elitist asshole), as well as knot tying, lashing and building of large scale primitive structures for extended living. Also I am EMT trained (no longer certified), C1 in the american white water canoeing association, have completed good training in orienteering and have run games.

Im not a professional scout but heres my opinion.
I cant teach scouts anything useful about survival. All I can do is teach them to scrape by until they can signal industrial society to rescue them. If I teach them how to make traps, some goober will kill his sister with a deadfall. If I teach them how to spear fish, its illegal to practice, same with fish traps. If I teach them how to make bolos then...well you get the idea. the biggest casualty in my opinion, in terms of peak oil, is that I cannot share with the scouts the last 5 years of research into edible or medicinal wild plant identification and preperation. Another thing (not about goshen). Boy scouts seems to be losing its edge in firearms training (not at goshen though, excellent program). The rash of school shooting and the media with their agenda is making people in scouting lose interest in firearms. Several of the school shooters were eagle scouts. Especially around urban centers. The pressure from outside to sanitize and dumb down the real experience of scouting to make it insurance company/bueacracy friendly is killing this organization so much that goshen might be forced to install a swimming pool and ban lake and stream swimming. its starting to look like a well funded 4-h and that is a national tradgedy. Even the gay issue is indicative of this. The issue to me is not gays or no gays as I see the entire thing as being symptomatic of the disease of national organization and the marketing of scouting as a business. ( I am niether for or against gays in scouting as I have many homosexual friends several of wich are eagle scouts). The issue here is as much logistics and legality/liability (more so in reality) than is the issue of whatever crap comes out of the national council in houston. To them scouting is a business and their clientell is wonderbread american consumers who voted for bush. This organization was supposed to be local based and making it into a national day care service with xian ideals and a marketable brand name is killing it. Let troops decide and manage themselves at the local council level. The only way it will survive another 30 years is to localize and cast off the national leadership. sorry for the long post

--john

[BabyPeanut]

"we-blows"? Blow what? Oh well.

http://www.enduringvision.com/archives/ ... nement.htm
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Deaths, Postponements Prove God Hates Boy Scouts And Their "Activities"
by Scott Wagner

Normally, the annual Boy Scout Jamboree is a festival of fun, dedication to Scouting and ambiguously homosexual activities. This year, however, the Jamboree has been marred by the deaths of four people, hundreds of scouts suffering from heat-related maladies, and the postponement of President George W. Bush’s visit. It is a clear sign, say many, that the scouts do not sit well with the Good Lord.

"People assume that the Scouts are about fun and male bonding," said Reverend Allan P. Whipple, a leader of the Traditional Values Coalition (TVC). "But the Lord knows what they’re really doing behind closed doors: homosexuality and Satan."

The President’s speech was originally scheduled for this past Thursday, but was cancelled when thunder and lightning threatened to kill him. On Monday, four scout leaders were electrocuted while playing the traditional scout game of "stick the tent pole in the power lines".

"It’s obvious," said Whipple, "that God hates the Boy Scouts."

Indeed, many young males are lured to Scouting by its promises of outdoor fun, such as hiking, singing, swimming and holding hands together. However, says the TVC, the Boy Scouts of America is merely a dummy front for the World Homosexual, Satanic and Communist Organization (WHSCO), which advocates communism, world government, hatred of Jesus and the gay lifestyle.

The Boy Scouts have also generated controversy over their policy of not allowing openly gay men into the club. Many liberals believe that gays should be forced into the Boy Scouts, while many conservatives are "positive" the Homosexual Agenda is already controlling the organization. The issue is divisive.

Ann Culture, the wife of another leader of the TVC, stated: "While I am not allowed to be a member of the [TVC] because I have to be home to make dinner and raise the children, I would never allow my sons to be a member of that accursed club. If Jesus hates them, that’s good enough for me, as long as my husband says so."

Jesus, who is believed by many to be 1/3 of God, while simultaneously being God’s son and God himself, refused to comment. However, his father and 1/3 of Jesus himself, The Lord God Allah James Jehovah, stated in a press release that while he hated the gay lifestyle, he did not hate homosexuals themselves.

"But to the Boy Scouts," he added, "I hate all of you."

[Tyler_JC]

Wow, lots of fellow Scouts here!

I'm a boy scout and I am currently working on my Eagle Project. (if I ever get around to actually doing it... )

It is very disappointing that women have taken over things like Boy Scouts and other such organizations in order to make it "safe" and "fair".

It's sad what happened Virginia, I almost went to that too.

My troop (a bunch of pathetic video-gamin' city folk if you ask me) doesn't overdo the religion thing. In fact, it's a total non-issue. The troop leaders are very smart people, but we aren't exactly out in rural Mississippi so the survival training is rather limited.

The main goal of the organization is to train boys to be leaders. That's what the whole "patrol leader, senior patrol leader" thing is about. The main objective is to teach kids how to get along and take care of the younger ones.

It's a noble, thankless job. But we try, we try so very hard.

And I agree Aaron, the "photography merit badge" just like the "computer merit badge" and the "truck transportation merit badge" take away from the experience.

*I do in fact have all of those merit badges, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up !

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')orld Homosexual, Satanic and Communist Organization (WHSCO), which advocates communism, world government, hatred of Jesus and the gay lifestyle.

[duke3522]

goetic_neuromancer

Thanks for the excellent inside info. It is good to hear that a few of the troops are still trying to teach some survival skills. I was never into it as much as you are, but I think I will be able to hold my own for awhile if we have any problems.

As for the liability issues, sounds to be as bad, if not worse, than I had heard. When I was in the troop here we use to go on survival camps outs where we could take a 1 pound coffee can of food, a pocket knife, a 6’x6’ tarp, and 6 matches. We would be out for 3 nights. When I was in about 5th grade we went on one of these survival campout over a 3 day weekend in late October. The campout went great but on Monday morning I woke up with the worst case of poison ivy you would ever want to see. Both my eyes were swollen shut, and I could barely open my mouth. I spent 3 days in the hospital and 2 weeks home from school. Back then what happened in this situation? I learned a valuable lesson. Today I am sure lawyers would become involved.

The problem with the scouts says a lot about how the population of the US will handle the economic disruption that PO is likely to cause. During the great depression most folk still had skills where they could plant a garden, hunt small game, and generally take care of themselves during most emergency conditions. But today, if the trucks stop rolling into the
Wal-Mart, many folks will be totally lost.

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', 'I') cannot believe that there are people out there who believe that WHSCO exists

[retiredguy]

Add one more eagle scout to your list. Plus I spent a number of years in the 60s as a camp counselor. My politics and the BSA's, have, shall we say, diverged since those times.

However, I will say that Scouting taught me respect for nature that I have never forgotten. And I learned self-reliance from Scouting, some of it Scouting-sactioned and some of it not.

[canis_lupus]

Hey, y'all -

Another Eagle Scout here, in Illinois. I, too, was Scoutcraft Director in the 80's at the summer camp all the troops around here went to.

We banned anything camoflage as it was too militaristic. Had just enough religion.

We never had any trouble with lawsuits or insurance companies. In my area, for example, we built 30 - 40 foot tripod towers out of lodgepole pines. The tripods were so big they took all 35 staff to help erect.

We had a 300' zip line that went from a 40' tower on a hill down into the woods. We built a bridge between the towers as high as we could make it.

And we loved all of it. Our Scouts did too and the dads that came with them.

Our troop leaders were required to take Scout Leader Training. For you ignorant jackasses so quick to tear down, it was required. The leaders were all our dads. They went to training mandated by our Council and learned alot.

I'm 36 now, a Peak Oiler brewing biodiesel, going solar and who has three viable plans and places to go to WTHSHTF. My friends are my fellow Scouts from way back. I don't think I'd consider anyone in my Post PO plans unless they had a Scouting background.

So before you continue to tear down (too religious / too militarisitc / too gay / too straight / unlucky enough to have a tent catch a gust and blow it into the power lines / not enough training for 13 year olds how to survive when society breaks down / whatever the fck) try and support the last organization of its kind that does what it does.

Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind
Obedient
Cheerful
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
Reverent

Which one of you WOULDN'T want Scouts around when it all goes to hell?

[Badger]

Our scout leader was a old school Maori dude from off the land

Taught us bush and mountain survival, hunting, living off the land and other stuff on how to stay alive in the NZ bush while in the bush

but they were different times before wiedos and other idiots appeared on the scene well before the consumer age of softies poofters and talking heads full o shit

I still retain that knowledge! Cheers Charles thanks for that knowledge