[vtsnowedin]

I'd also be interested in clear explanation of just how bitcoin works and it's advantages over traditional currency.
But back to Covid related investing:
A news segment on Fox Business noted the start of first phase trials on yet another Vaccine. This one from immunitybio with NantKwest (NK ). This one takes a different approach as it promotes T cell production to fully turn on the patients immune system. They designed it building on the success they have had treating pancreatic cancer.
As interesting as their Covid vaccine work is what got my attention was their anti cancer work which might eventually lead to an anti cancer vaccine.
Just something to think about and watch a bit.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hile I await Carinkes response I will demonstrate my ignorance by attempting a partial answer.

...

Because they are rare their quantity is controlled. My understanding is that super computers or mesh computing is being used to solve for more bitcoin solutions. The energy being expended to “mine” bitcoins is somewhat more than what Belgium uses.

Essentially you own a bit coin solution, you get a certification of the solution, which is unique, can not be replicated.

So a bit coin is a lot like gold, it is a rare item, limited quantity, can not be replicated or transmuted.

It is a rejection of fiat currencies the same way gold bugs hoard physical gold. Or junk silver. I think of it this way, a bit coin is real in the intellectual world the way hold is real in the physical world. It is a repudiation of fiat which is based on TRUST. So gold bugs and bit coin adherents are saying they have more faith in good or the bit coin SYSTEM than they do in dollars. Then there are the folks who buy toilet paper and ammo.

[Newfie]

To me the take away from the crypto story is that it points out just how LITTLE faith many folks in the financial system have in fiat currencies. Essentially they are investing in the collapse of our current money system.

[vtsnowedin]

Dose anyone have a handle on how many people are investing in Bitcoin out of any given population? Is it a toy for Geeks or something everybody should consider?
As an older conservative I think not, but the majority might have other ideas.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'D')ose anyone have a handle on how many people are investing in Bitcoin out of any given population? Is it a toy for Geeks or something everybody should consider?
As an older conservative I think not, but the majority might have other ideas.

[Plantagenet]

I'm not a big fan of bitcoin because I can't see where it has any intrinsic value.

When you invest in gold or land or stocks of companies there are some real physical assets there......

But there isn't anything actually there in a Bitcoin. Its just a digital conjuration.

I mean.....if you want to invest in rarity why not buy rare stamps. Then you get a real item.

I've got a friend who invests in rare coins. Again..... he pays his money and gets a rare coin.

Bitcoin......not so much....

Personally, I think people who buy Bitcoin are just speculating. You buy bitcoin and maybe somebody will pay more for it at a later date. IMHO its the big up-and-down moves in Bitcoin that are the attraction for investors.


If you want to invest in something rare, why not invest in rare stamps? No one is out there making any more of them....

Cheers!

[Newfie]

Plant,

Thats the thing, as ephemeral as it is bit coin has some intrinsic value, it is a rare item that can be uniquely identified.

Compare to gold
Gold is rare but can be mined, ditto bit coin - except there seems to be a faster diminishing rate of return. It keeps getting harder and harder to find solutions to the algorithm.

Hood can not he uniquely identified, it can be assayed to assure purity. But coins are absolutely unique and identifiable.

Money, dollars or Euros or pounds are not rare, they can be and are created from thin air.

Money can be counterfeited but that has gotten harder. But is not just printing more money government sanctioned counterfeiting?

Bottom line: bitcoin has more valuable traits than MODERN fiat currency.

[vtsnowedin]

At present if I go down to the local store and pull an eighteen pack of Bud from the cooler and set it on the counter with a picture of dead president Andrew Jackson on it they will take the piece of paper and let me walk out the door with my beer.
That works for me and as long as that works I see no need for Bitcoin or any other cyber currency.

[Newfie]

Here is an old question of mine.

Lets say you have a spare $100,000 laying around. You do not want to keep it in cash, you want it to be useful in a collapse situation. So it needs to be portable and of sufficient intrinsic worth that it will not loose value AND it needs to be divisible into small units, so that you can buy a loaf if bread with it.

Real estate is a great investment, not portable or divisible. Gold is portable but hard to wack off $5 worth. I have no clue about bitcoin divisibility, I suspect you sell it, convert it to cash.

I find this a difficult question. The only thing I can think of that works would be either junk silver or ammo. 22LR would work reasonably well but is heavy. And for me traveling internationally it is often illegal.

Other thoughts appreciated.

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'H')ere is an old question of mine.

Lets say you have a spare $100,000 laying around. You do not want to keep it in cash, you want it to be useful in a collapse situation. So it needs to be portable and of sufficient intrinsic worth that it will not loose value AND it needs to be divisible into small units, so that you can buy a loaf if bread with it.

Real estate is a great investment, not portable or divisible. Gold is portable but hard to wack off $5 worth. I have no clue about bitcoin divisibility, I suspect you sell it, convert it to cash.

I find this a difficult question. The only thing I can think of that works would be either junk silver or ammo. 22LR would work reasonably well but is heavy. And for me traveling internationally it is often illegal.

Other thoughts appreciated.

[vtsnowedin]

$100,000 laying around? Nice problem to have.
How about what it would take for you to survive with no additional income for a year?
High end earners have often leveraged out their expenses with high rents and high car payments etc. and paying minimums on those pesky credit card balances.
Cut off their income and in sixty days they are out of the apartment and their car has been repossessed. Hope Mom and Dad will still let you in.
The best defense is to own outright a modest house you can live in for just the utility bills and the property taxes knowing it takes a couple of years for back taxes to result in eviction. A good solid bank balance would not hurt a bit in such a situation but you have to take action to carry on once it is exhausted.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'P')lant,

Thats the thing, as ephemeral as it is bit coin has some intrinsic value, it is a rare item that can be uniquely identified.

Compare to gold
Gold is rare but can be mined, ditto bit coin - except there seems to be a faster diminishing rate of return. It keeps getting harder and harder to find solutions to the algorithm.

Hood can not he uniquely identified, it can be assayed to assure purity. But coins are absolutely unique and identifiable.

Money, dollars or Euros or pounds are not rare, they can be and are created from thin air.

Money can be counterfeited but that has gotten harder. But is not just printing more money government sanctioned counterfeiting?

Bottom line: bitcoin has more valuable traits than MODERN fiat currency.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '$')100,000 laying around? Nice problem to have.
How about what it would take for you to survive with no additional income for a year?
High end earners have often leveraged out their expenses with high rents and high car payments etc. and paying minimums on those pesky credit card balances.
Cut off their income and in sixty days they are out of the apartment and their car has been repossessed. Hope Mom and Dad will still let you in.
The best defense is to own outright a modest house you can live in for just the utility bills and the property taxes knowing it takes a couple of years for back taxes to result in eviction. A good solid bank balance would not hurt a bit in such a situation but you have to take action to carry on once it is exhausted.

[Newfie]

$100,000 was just a tool to use to start the discussion. Its a reasonable amount to be someones entire life savings, something you need to protect but also access in reasonable amounts.

We personally are fairly well set, the result of a life time of hard work and some lucky investments and some straight up luck.

As things stand we own a 4 apartment building in Philadelphia, we have some retirement investments (IRA) and have social security. We are far from rich, but reasonably well off. Many filks will he in really deep trouble before us. Part of that is we live a low cost life style. And we are cheap. Not many folks would live as we do, yet we are happy.

Our 3 legged investment strategy gives us some stability but is not without risk. Years ago here we would talk about our bug out places and how to survive the collapse. Those old conversations are still relevant. How do you survive collapse?

Look at the turmoil in our culture because of this little bug. Corona highlights just how insecure we are; financially AND emotionally. A little bug and we freak out. Perhaps we freak out because we can afford to, a more serious threat would be met with more calm? Maybe, who really knows.

We should all he looking around to understand how vulnerable our systems have been shown to be. It would not take much of a shock to totally disrupt systems worldwide. It is inconceivable to us that the dollar or euro would collapse. But as Covid shows the inconceivable is possible. It makes sense to consider various possible futures And prepare for each - if possible.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'P')lant,

Thats the thing, as ephemeral as it is bit coin has some intrinsic value, it is a rare item that can be uniquely identified.

Compare to gold
Gold is rare but can be mined, ditto bit coin - except there seems to be a faster diminishing rate of return. It keeps getting harder and harder to find solutions to the algorithm.

Hood can not he uniquely identified, it can be assayed to assure purity. But coins are absolutely unique and identifiable.

Money, dollars or Euros or pounds are not rare, they can be and are created from thin air.

Money can be counterfeited but that has gotten harder. But is not just printing more money government sanctioned counterfeiting?

Bottom line: bitcoin has more valuable traits than MODERN fiat currency.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'H')ere is an old question of mine.

Lets say you have a spare $100,000 laying around. You do not want to keep it in cash, you want it to be useful in a collapse situation. So it needs to be portable and of sufficient intrinsic worth that it will not loose value AND it needs to be divisible into small units, so that you can buy a loaf if bread with it.

Real estate is a great investment, not portable or divisible. Gold is portable but hard to wack off $5 worth. I have no clue about bitcoin divisibility, I suspect you sell it, convert it to cash.

I find this a difficult question. The only thing I can think of that works would be either junk silver or ammo. 22LR would work reasonably well but is heavy. And for me traveling internationally it is often illegal.

Other thoughts appreciated.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Not at all, I don't have bit coin because of those risks. But there are also risks with money. You cant ignore those either. I see no risk free path. Best to diversify to spread your assets so that it is not all in one risk category.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Good point. Far too few people, especially relatively young people, seem to understand the value of not being in lots of debt -- especially debt that can CRUSH you in short order if something goes wrong.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Good point. Far too few people, especially relatively young people, seem to understand the value of not being in lots of debt -- especially debt that can CRUSH you in short order if something goes wrong.

[vtsnowedin]

It has always amazed me that people will trade up houses in their fifties and take on a new thirty year mortgage after their children are grown and gone. Or buy a "Vacation" home or time share while they still owe a lot on their first house due to repeatedly refinancing it and using the money for other things beside the improvement to the house. And then there are the four car garages with a car, a pickup, a boat , a four wheeler, a thirty foot RV,a motorcycle or two, and a snow machine or two etc.
Fixed retirement plans used to provide for half pay after thirty years of work and contributions. For that to work you need to have the big stuff paid off in full so half pay is adequate. I have managed that and today my largest monthly bill other then groceries is the bill for the two cell phones.
My state retirement plus social security amount to my making $16.50 an hour without having to go to work. I could not make payments on a house or RVs etc. on that But I am pretty comfortable.